The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

[Restomaniac]

And it was not like nobody saw this coming. This outcome was very probable after Japan; I am also perplexed with the amount of controversy this generates.

For the record, to the people who believe Mercedes conspired with Rosberg: What do you think it means for Mercedes when a PU blows up? That's not exactly good marketing. Plus 1,500 workers can say goodbye to a bonus.

Every decision Mercedes made that did not benefit Hamilton, was made solely to benefit the team, just as every decision made that did not benefit Rosberg, was made solely to benefit the team.

The thing is the engine thing was questionable either way. However let us be honest here. The decisions Merc made yesterday with regard to instuctions and Wolffs comments post race favoured only 1 person and it wasn't Hamilton.

The decision was made to benefit the team. To put it blunt and black/white, the team couldn't give one bit about the drivers. It only cares about achieving the highest possible finish, a 1-2. It saw a threat to that, so it acted. This is nothing different from it asking Rosberg in Monaco to let Hamilton through. Naturally, that goal of a 1-2 was benefitting Rosberg's title chances and reducing Hamilton's chances. A consequence the team is not giving any thought, nor should give any thought.

Im sorry but Monaco is in the middle of the season. This wasn't and Merc knew very well what those orders in that last race meant to the WDC.

You talk about black and white. The black and white is that if Hamilton did as he was told then he handed the WDC to Rosberg in a season where Merc have failed Hamilton.
None of that is questionable. Merc HAVE failed Hamilton due to unreliability and in issuing those orders they WERE asking Hamilton to hand the WDC to Rosberg.

[rgava]

Those berating Hamiton. Can you answer me a question?

Being honest what do you think some of the best drivers in history would have done in Hamilton's place?
Senna? Prost? Schumacher? Alonso? Mansell? Laura? Etc? Give me a driver who wouldn't have done what Hamilton did and I'll give you someone who shouldn't be in a racing car.

Juan Manuel Fangio

Hamilton attitude and people defending it shows that sportmanship has died.

What Mercedes were trying to tell Hamilton is "show you are a gentleman, show you have made the best you could by wining this race but not trying to heart your team-mate's race"

[turbof1]

]Im sorry but Monaco is in the middle of the season. This wasn't and Merc knew very well what those orders in that last race meant to the WDC.

You talk about black and white. The black and white is that if Hamilton did as he was told then he handed the WDC to Rosberg in a season where Merc have failed Hamilton.
None of that is questionable. Merc HAVE failed Hamilton due to unreliability and in issuing those orders they WERE asking Hamilton to hand the WDC to Rosberg.

It is not of any concern to Mercedes who wins the WDC, as long as it is one of their drivers and as long the other driver becomes second. Everything else revolves finishing the race in first or second place, and if that is not achievable, the highest finishing place. Consequently failing Hamilton or Rosberg is neither a concern for them as long as it does not fail their own goals described above.

For a team, the team always comes first. For a driver, himself comes first. A conflict of interests is not the same as purposely advantaging one driver.

[Vettelswonmeover]

Lewis should leave the team. They have been unfair and they need to be taught a lesson. Rosberg cannot carry the team to glory on his own. They need that STAR driver. Rosberg is a good driver and deserving of his WDC but he is not in that bracket of Alonso, Lewis, Max and Dani Ric. Plain and simple!

Definitely! It's not like Mercedes has a car that's miles ahead of the competition and literally any of the current F1 drivers would've won the title. Oh, wait...

The truth is that these championships belong mostly to the guys at the factory. Even more than Vettel's. That doesn't say anything about Hamilton and Rosberg and their quality as drivers. As such, when you owe so much to those people who have designed and built the car, for whom the race win bonuses are actually important, it's incredibly selfish to act in the way that Lewis did yesterday.

A few things.
1 Merc have already won the WCC.
2 A Merc driver was winning the WDC
3 The race win was clearly in no doubt.
So the designers and builders were in no danger of losing bonuses.

The whole logic of your arguement is built on nothing as a way to try and deflect away from a team favouring 1 driver and towards a driver rightly trying to win a WDC.

Also in 2017 the regs have changed and we are back more towards an aero spec car with unlimited engine upgrades. You think Merc will still be THAT dominant?

+1 to the Restomaniac

[mzivtins]

Those berating Hamiton. Can you answer me a question?

Being honest what do you think some of the best drivers in history would have done in Hamilton's place?
Senna? Prost? Schumacher? Alonso? Mansell? Laura? Etc? Give me a driver who wouldn't have done what Hamilton did and I'll give you someone who shouldn't be in a racing car.

Juan Manuel Fangio

Hamilton attitude and people defending it shows that sportmanship has died.

What Mercedes were trying to tell Hamilton is "show you are a gentleman, show you have made the best you could by wining this race but not trying to heart your team-mate's race"

It isn't really a sport when the championship is almost decided on team orders, the fact they are un happy with a driver for trying to win it themselves is quite extraordinary, i went into this weekend assuming we had a battle for the championship winner, yet apparently mercedes planned precisely for one driver to win over the other.

What a very strange outcome for a title fight. Poor celebrations due to alcohol/champagne limitations at the track and one driver facing penalty for trying his hardest to win the championship over another....

[Restomaniac]

]Im sorry but Monaco is in the middle of the season. This wasn't and Merc knew very well what those orders in that last race meant to the WDC.

You talk about black and white. The black and white is that if Hamilton did as he was told then he handed the WDC to Rosberg in a season where Merc have failed Hamilton.
None of that is questionable. Merc HAVE failed Hamilton due to unreliability and in issuing those orders they WERE asking Hamilton to hand the WDC to Rosberg.

It is not of any concern to Mercedes who wins the WDC, as long as it is one of their drivers and as long the other driver becomes second. Everything else revolves finishing the race in first or second place, and if that is not achievable, the highest finishing place. Consequently failing Hamilton or Rosberg is neither a concern for them as long as it does not fail their own goals described above.

For a team, the team always comes first. For a driver, himself comes first. A conflict of interests is not the same as purposely advantaging one driver.

Toto Wolff has made reference to Hamiton's WDCs more than once.
Both Wolff and Lowe have more than once commented on failing Hamilton this season.
So with question marks hanging over the team about where their loyalties lie they decided to issue orders that may as well have been 'Lewis please give Nico the WDC'? I'm sorry they are not idiots nor are they robots. They knew what the were asking Hamilton to do, it was more than just a 1-2 finish and EVERYONE knew that including Merc. The only way you excuse Merc is by pretending they are idiots who didn't know what the outcome would have been. I don't for one second think that they are idiots as I have said.

Please can we all stop pretending Merc didn't know what they were asking for. They did and yet they asked for it anyway.

.

[Just_a_fan]

What Mercedes were trying to tell Hamilton is "show you are a gentleman, show you have made the best you could by wining this race but not trying to heart your team-mate's race"

No, the team was saying "the team wants an easy 1-2 and doesn't care about your title hopes".

[Pierce89]

I'm a little puzzled about the teams apparent reaction to what Lewis did.

Wolff has made much of the guys being free to race. This was the final race of the season, the constructors title was in the bag, one Merc driver was going to take the drivers no matter what happened. The team telling Hamilton he had to speed up because of Max / Vettel catching up sounds reasonable in a normal race, but today it was effectively telling Lewis to give up the slim chance of retaining his title.

Was he ever going to respond to that? Why should he? Yes, you have to do right by your team, but asking your driver to throw in the towel, because your other driver apparently lacked the capability to pass on his own, that seems somewhat unreasonable from the team to me.

Ultimately, the team had nothing to gain from getting involved, those messages seem a bit daft, Lewis was never going to follow them. Nico asking to be let through only adds to the idea that he can't fully go toe to toe with Hamilton too. The smarter thing would have been for the team to say that they wouldn't get involved, and that all bets were off, other than avoiding any contact.

They wanted a 1-2 every race like the car deserved. Jeopardizing that isn't fair to the rest of the team.

[mzivtins]

Toto Wolff has made reference to Hamiton's WDCs more than once.
Both Wolff and Lowe have more than once commented on failing Hamilton this season.
So with question marks hanging over the team about where their loyalties lie they decided to issue orders that may as well have been 'Lewis please give Nico the WDC'? I'm sorry they are not idiots nor are they robots. They knew what the were asking Hamilton to do, it was more than just a 1-2 finish and EVERYONE knew that including Merc. The only way you excuse Merc is by pretending they are idiots who didn't know what the outcome would have been. I don't for one second think that they are idiots as I have said.

Please can we all stop pretending Merc didn't know what they were asking for. They did and yet they asked for it anyway.

.

100% Agree, on Sunday mercedes did not want a race. both drivers fought for the WDC and merc did NOT like that. In the news this morning hearing that one driver may face suspension for fight for the WDC is outrageous. Clearly not a sport if that takes place. How unbelievable. After an awful season in F1 this form of behavior by MERC makes this clearly one of the worst season in F1, which is a shame, because BOTH drivers did NOTHING wrong!

[rgava]

Those berating Hamiton. Can you answer me a question?

Being honest what do you think some of the best drivers in history would have done in Hamilton's place?
Senna? Prost? Schumacher? Alonso? Mansell? Laura? Etc? Give me a driver who wouldn't have done what Hamilton did and I'll give you someone who shouldn't be in a racing car.

Juan Manuel Fangio

Hamilton attitude and people defending it shows that sportmanship has died.

What Mercedes were trying to tell Hamilton is "show you are a gentleman, show you have made the best you could by wining this race but not trying to heart your team-mate's race"

It isn't really a sport when the championship is almost decided on team orders, the fact they are un happy with a driver for trying to win it themselves is quite extraordinary, i went into this weekend assuming we had a battle for the championship winner, yet apparently mercedes planned precisely for one driver to win over the other.

What a very strange outcome for a title fight. Poor celebrations due to alcohol/champagne limitations at the track and one driver facing penalty for trying his hardest to win the championship over another....

Championship was decided before team orders asking Hamilton not to jeopardize it's team-mate race.

Had Hamilton succeeded in doing so and won the championship by its strategy for me it's the same as wining a championship by colliding with him to force a DNF.

The difference between being a great racer and being a great person is what Hamilton is showing. He showed its selfishness by doing what he did. This is not a good value to show as a brand for Mercedes.

[turbof1]

]Im sorry but Monaco is in the middle of the season. This wasn't and Merc knew very well what those orders in that last race meant to the WDC.

You talk about black and white. The black and white is that if Hamilton did as he was told then he handed the WDC to Rosberg in a season where Merc have failed Hamilton.
None of that is questionable. Merc HAVE failed Hamilton due to unreliability and in issuing those orders they WERE asking Hamilton to hand the WDC to Rosberg.

It is not of any concern to Mercedes who wins the WDC, as long as it is one of their drivers and as long the other driver becomes second. Everything else revolves finishing the race in first or second place, and if that is not achievable, the highest finishing place. Consequently failing Hamilton or Rosberg is neither a concern for them as long as it does not fail their own goals described above.

For a team, the team always comes first. For a driver, himself comes first. A conflict of interests is not the same as purposely advantaging one driver.

Toto Wolff has made reference to Hamiton's WDCs more than once.
Both Wolff and Lowe have more than once commented on failing Hamilton this season.
So with question marks hanging over the team about where their loyalties lie they decided to issue orders that may as well have been 'Lewis please give Nico the WDC'? I'm sorry they are not idiots nor are they robots. They knew what the were asking Hamilton to do, it was more than just a 1-2 finish and EVERYONE knew that including Merc. The only way you excuse Merc is by pretending they are idiots who didn't know what the outcome would have been. I don't for one second think that they are idiots as I have said.

Please can we all stop pretending Merc didn't know what they were asking for. They did and yet they asked for it anyway.

.

Yes they commented on that. You know why? Because it had direct consequences on the best finishing positions for Mercedes. They first and foremost failed themselves. Any consequence towards the driver is for them at best secondary and a small marketing PR comment.

Of course they knew what they were asking Hamilton. You are simply ignoring the fact it's not a concern for the team that it hurt Hamilton's chances. The desired outcome for Mercedes, 1-2 in the WDC no matter which driver is in 1st, was already achieved. A 1-2 in Abu Dhabi was not as they yet had to cross the finish line and were under pressure from Vettel.

I am not accusing Mercedes of being stupid. I am saying that Mercedes is doing what every profit-maximizing company is doing: maximizing real and potential profits. A hypothetical example: say you eat cornflakes and your favourite supplier replaces one of the ingredients with a cheaper substitute of which 0.01℅ of the population is allergic to. You fall under that 0.01℅. does that mean your supplier purposely disadvantages you? No it simply means it does not care about you. Is that stupid? No, because it raised profits. It simply put is cold.

[Manu_Forti]

Hamilton did his best to try and win it. He tried backing Nico up, which was fair play in my book, but the team needed him to speed up to protect the race win as Vettel was fast and closing rapidly. Lewis Hamilton is a great racing driver, one of the best ever to pull down a visor. But as a person he falls far short in my estimation. Nico has been given istructions before and obeyed them, Lewis however feels he is bigger than the team . And that isnt new, we have seen it at McLaren with tweeting team data and him and his fans claiming Whitmarsh favoured JB when JB beat him. He has also outright lied to the stewards in the past. Every team he has ever been at he has caused ructions. And whenever things dont go his way the insinuations in the media start, the subtle hints and digs. Probably because he knows his army of followers, for whom he can do no wrong and for whom no conspiracy theory is too far fetched in the belief that if he doesnt win every race its someone elses fault will grab the bone and run with it. At the end of the day Lewis is a Mercedes employee and if he feels that he is being hard done by then state that clearly, sort it out, or move on. Toto Wolff on Channel 4 stated clearly why they asked him to speed up, and he didnt by blatantly disobeying the team. Twice. No one is bigger than the team. Lewis needs to be remined of that.

Nico beat him to the title. No matter what Lewis tried it didnt work. Nico is not a better driver than Lewis in my view but he's smarter. And he won the title this year, end of. The amount of mech faliures is irrelevant as its all about points on the board, Nico still had to drive the car and he was always there. So congrats to him, I honestly think he will be even stronger next year, the more Hamilton whines the more Nico knows all he has to do is put him under pressure and Hamilton's ego will do the rest for him. Nico lost his mechanics in the swap but you dont hear him whining about it. The situation Lewis is in now is driving for a German team with a German champion, and he has disobeyed team instructions on track, if the claims of Mercedes bias with Nico arent true now I wouldnt be surprised if they are soon. Lewis needs to shut up and drive, for in that he is exceptional. Just drop the spoiled teenager act, and be magnanimous in defeat. People will remember that long after the driving is done no matter how many titles and wins he may have.

[Pierce89]

Good article. Mentions the "il-Lew-minati" spreading their hate, but its quite balanced.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/opini ... im-854793/

[Restomaniac]

It is not of any concern to Mercedes who wins the WDC, as long as it is one of their drivers and as long the other driver becomes second. Everything else revolves finishing the race in first or second place, and if that is not achievable, the highest finishing place. Consequently failing Hamilton or Rosberg is neither a concern for them as long as it does not fail their own goals described above.

For a team, the team always comes first. For a driver, himself comes first. A conflict of interests is not the same as purposely advantaging one driver.

Toto Wolff has made reference to Hamiton's WDCs more than once.
Both Wolff and Lowe have more than once commented on failing Hamilton this season.
So with question marks hanging over the team about where their loyalties lie they decided to issue orders that may as well have been 'Lewis please give Nico the WDC'? I'm sorry they are not idiots nor are they robots. They knew what the were asking Hamilton to do, it was more than just a 1-2 finish and EVERYONE knew that including Merc. The only way you excuse Merc is by pretending they are idiots who didn't know what the outcome would have been. I don't for one second think that they are idiots as I have said.

Please can we all stop pretending Merc didn't know what they were asking for. They did and yet they asked for it anyway.

.

Yes they commented on that. You know why? Because it had direct consequences on the best finishing positions for Mercedes. They first and foremost failed themselves. Any consequence towards the driver is for them at best secondary and a small marketing PR comment.

Of course they knew what they were asking Hamilton. You are simply ignoring the fact it's not a concern for the team that it hurt Hamilton's chances. The desired outcome for Mercedes, 1-2 in the WDC no matter which driver is in 1st, was already achieved. A 1-2 in Abu Dhabi was not as they yet had to cross the finish line and were under pressure from Vettel.

I am not accusing Mercedes of being stupid. I am saying that Mercedes is doing what every profit-maximizing company is doing: maximizing real and potential profits. A hypothetical example: say you eat cornflakes and your favourite supplier replaces one of the ingredients with a cheaper substitute of which 0.01℅ of the population is allergic to. You fall under that 0.01℅. does that mean your supplier purposely disadvantages you? No it simply means it does not care about you. Is that stupid? No, because it raised profits. It simply put is cold.

Im pretty certain Kellogs (I went there ) wouldn't do that if it put them in the middle of a poopstorm because that certainly isn't good for business. Merc have by their actions done exactly that.

Move over by barking out orders they have in fact damaged Rosbergs title more.
I imagine Rosberg is over the moon when he listens back and realises that his 2016 title now has an even bigger question mark over it.

So well done Merc. You have put yourselves in the middle of a poopstorm which is not good for business, tried to paint your 3 time WDC as a loose cannon and made the question mark over your now 1 time WDC championship all the bigger.

[turbof1]

Well I am not saying Mercedes eventually did the best job concerning marketing, or it was in their own interests the best decision (my opinion is they should not have intervened as a 1-2 in Abu Dhabi would not made a big difference anyway). I am merely telling the decision making process did not involve concern for the drivers.

Ultimately, Mercedes did went a bit too light with the conflict of interest. They could have prevented it by swallowing their interests for a moment and not demanding anything of Hamilton. That way Hamilton neither would had to ignore orders, and consequently the controversy that is now harming Mercedes' interests, would have been avoided.