Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Craigy]

Agreed. From my (very PU-centric) perspective, that's car data.

I believe PZ was referring to the full engine telemetry.

Ah, quite. I'd be surprised if they got to see things like cylinder pressures, or other internals they can't do much (or anything) about.
An aside - is there an actual value for "how close to knock you are", or perhaps "how big of a knock are we sensing"?
I don't know if there's an SI unit for it (I'd be surprised!).

It did occur to me that even things like ignition timing are probably driver controllable via the steering wheel (those streering wheel codes you hear like "Yellow G4" or whatever are probably both timing and fuelling).
Whether the drivers actually see the real figures from the engine chaps on what the various settings mean is more interesting.
I suppose you'd not tell anyone that unless there was a compelling reason to.

[Brian Coat]

If we define knock intensity simply as the magnitude of he oscillating part of the cylinder pressure trace then the SI unit will be Pascals.

There are several other definitions of knock intensity used in an attempt to maximise the accuracy of detection and some are dimensionless (e.g. using a ratio relative to prior non-knocking cycles)

Since the onset of knock is a gradual (but randomized) process and it is perfectly acceptable to have knocking cycles (unless the engine breaks!), some measure must be assigned to take into account the frequency and intensity of knocking cycles and there are various ways you can do this (e.g. Integration of the knock level over successive cycles).

The avoidance of detecting noise which isn't knock is important, so techniques such as bandpass filtering and crank angle windowing are typically used to maximise the SNR.

[godlameroso]

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/ionizatio ... bystem.pdf

I wold imagine they have something like this.

[Brian Coat]

I think it is very likely they have in-cylinder pressure sensors.

[Joseki]

Having heard reliable sources about Ferrari saying that they'll probably hit the 1000 hp mark from the start of the season I hope that Honda have set a target high enough for this season.

[mclaren111]

Having heard reliable sources about Ferrari saying that they'll probably hit the 1000 hp mark from the start of the season I hope that Honda have set a target high enough for this season.

If I remember correctly, Wazari stated that they have estimated where Mercedes will +- be at the start of 2017 and Honda will aim to get as close as possible to that point.

[mclaren111]

Why are things so quiet on the PU side ??

Hope it is a good sign [-o< [-o<

[godlameroso]

A number of reasons.

Any of the following scenarios are possible:
They made a monster engine and don't even want to give away any hints.

They are still behind and working flat out and don't have time to post.

They recently learned something new, and they're working flat out on trying to implement it by the time testing starts.

One thing is for certain, the new power unit will be much better than last year's, but who knows how the rest of the car will turn out.

[PlatinumZealot]

McLaren have not started their engine yet much less receieved it. Believe it or not this is good news. The sakura warriors are still tweaking out to the last detail before machining those last bits.. And no. My sources are not in my head.

[FrukostScones]

McLaren have not started their engine yet much less receieved it. Believe it or not this is good news. The sakura warriors are still tweaking out to the last detail before machining those last bits.. And no. My sources are not in my head.

yeah, but will they make it to the 2nd testing session?

[Far]

Renault will have the new engine for the Spanish Gp and Horner is ok because hi know they're close to MB hope Honda make a powerful engine at the start of the season there's no excuse any more no more token and Hope the Mcl32 to be a good packages or Fernando will be racing the MB in 2018.

[GoranF1]

They recently learned something new, and they're working flat out on trying to implement it by the time testing starts.

One thing is for certain, the new power unit will be much better than last year's, but who knows how the rest of the car will turn out.

Source?

[ncassi22]

They recently learned something new, and they're working flat out on trying to implement it by the time testing starts.

One thing is for certain, the new power unit will be much better than last year's, but who knows how the rest of the car will turn out.

Source?

Goran the first bit is asserted as a possibility amongst many others. The second bit is obvious. If not they wouldn't even turn up in March. The last bit is hope

[Craigy]

The second bit is obvious. If not they wouldn't even turn up in March.

There have been PU upgrades that didn't work immediately, in fact have been retrograde at the point of debut.
A prime example is Renault's work at the end of 2015. It eventually led to more performance, but wasn't itself helpful initially.

I sadly have to find fault with the logic that "new=better" on that basis - we'll see what the new Honda PU is like once it's run in public, in the car.
I think this lack of immediate benefit is especially likely if the combustion concept is changing radically, which on the balance of evidence available seem likely in the case of Honda this year.

[ncassi22]

The second bit is obvious. If not they wouldn't even turn up in March.

There have been PU upgrades that didn't work immediately, in fact have been retrograde at the point of debut.
A prime example is Renault's work at the end of 2015. It eventually led to more performance, but wasn't itself helpful initially.

I sadly have to find fault with the logic that "new=better" on that basis - we'll see what the new Honda PU is like once it's run in public, in the car.
I think this lack of immediate benefit is especially likely if the combustion concept is changing radically, which on the balance of evidence available seem likely in the case of Honda this year.

According to Wazari, whom is a recognized insider all manufacturers will improve from between approx 3-8%. Inferring from what he said about things going well on the dyno, as well as relative targets i.t.o power, consumption, etc. I'd assume Honda to be at the upper end of that. Also no tokens as was the case you mentioned. They'll still be behind but I have not seen any reports that suggest they might stagnate (I.e. Alonso's confidence of them hitting targets etc.) Reliability might be an issue. Although if I were them I'd take a penalty and run with 5 instead of 4 anyway. Depending on development rate this might allow them the opportunity to test more things.