2017 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai 07-09 April

[Fulcrum]

Looks like Vettel made two errors on corner exits leading onto straights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfWhKBBEGEo

He makes a correction between 9 and 10 [49 second mark] losing a small amount of exit speed for the straight that follows. I've included an image indicating the use of opposite lock - blurry, as it was corrected very quickly.



A relatively big correction exiting 12 before the long straight [61 second mark]. This one is fairly obvious, but see the associated image for an indication of where Hamilton and Vettel's hands are pointing at this point!



Hamilton's KPH at the end of the curb entering the straight was 285; Vettel about 280 - similar to Alonso. Hamilton is 307 at the DRS line, while Vettel is 304. Hamilton maxes out at 329, while Vettel never gets above 327.

Also, there is some very odd behaviour from the Ferrari at the end of the long straight.

Hamilton literally brakes from his maximum speed of 329 at approximately 125 meters before the corner. Vettel appears to run out of something, as his speed decreases from 327, approximately 200-250 meters before the corner, to 322 at the 125 meter mark, before he too brakes.

Is it possible the Ferrari is unable to sustain MGU-H/MGU-K power delivery for the duration of this straight? It certainly looks like they ran out of something 100 meters too early, as the throttle remains fully open throughout while the speed, and engine revolutions, decline.

Some images highlighting the change in behaviour.

Peak speed - peak engine revs.


Revs drop - speed maintained.


Speed and revs decline.


Speed and revs decline further.


Speed and revs decline further - throttle response still at 100% throughout.

[FLuidd]

Looks like Vettel made two errors on corner exits leading onto straights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfWhKBBEGEo

He makes a correction between 9 and 10 [49 second mark] losing a small amount of exit speed for the straight that follows. I've included an image indicating the use of opposite lock - blurry, as it was corrected very quickly.

http://i.imgur.com/UiI0N4f.png

A relatively big correction exiting 12 before the long straight [61 second mark]. This one is fairly obvious, but see the associated image for an indication of where Hamilton and Vettel's hands are pointing at this point!

http://i.imgur.com/v8O4qwN.png

Hamilton's KPH at the end of the curb entering the straight was 285; Vettel about 280 - similar to Alonso. Hamilton is 307 at the DRS line, while Vettel is 304. Hamilton maxes out at 329, while Vettel never gets above 327.

Also, there is some very odd behaviour from the Ferrari at the end of the long straight.

Hamilton literally brakes from his maximum speed of 329 at approximately 125 meters before the corner. Vettel appears to run out of something, as his speed decreases from 327, approximately 200-250 meters before the corner, to 322 at the 125 meter mark, before he too brakes.

Is it possible the Ferrari is unable to sustain MGU-H/MGU-K power delivery for the duration of this straight? It certainly looks like they ran out of something 100 meters too early, as the throttle remains fully open throughout while the speed, and engine revolutions, decline.

Some images highlighting the change in behaviour.

Peak speed - peak engine revs.
http://i.imgur.com/IyYe8Qr.png

Revs drop - speed maintained.
http://i.imgur.com/gnW8ddI.png

Speed and revs decline.
http://i.imgur.com/lo3IRTH.png

Speed and revs decline further.
http://i.imgur.com/nj5Rm44.png

Speed and revs decline further - throttle response still at 100% throughout.
http://i.imgur.com/OO5Eaeq.png

Wrong, it has been pointed out on f1 subreddit that the graphic overlay is not 100% correlated with the car.

[FelixAustria]

I wonder that both Mercedes and Ferrari are far away from the limit of 15 000 rpm

[PlatinumZealot]

@Fulcrum. It could have been a head wind.

Either way the Ferrari seems to accelerate better out of corners like in Austrialia. The exceptions, as you pointed out were when Vettel made mistakes, one of which cost him dearly on the long straight.

I don't know about Mercedes having any "magic button" as people like to suggest. Watching the video there wasn't anything in it but the difference between drivers. If anything the Ferrari still seems better into corners, but Vettel likes to go early throttle on the exit so he got abit out of shape a few times. I think if he was fault free he could have been within a shot at pole.

[Fulcrum]

@Fulcrum. It could have been a head wind.

Either way the Ferrari seems to accelerate better out of corners like in Austrialia. The exceptions, as you pointed out were when Vettel made mistakes, one of which cost him dearly on the long straight.

I don't know about Mercedes having any "magic button" as people like to suggest. Watching the video there wasn't anything in it but the difference between drivers. If anything the Ferrari still seems better into corners, but Vettel likes to go early throttle on the exit so he got abit out of shape a few times. I think if he was fault free he could have been within a shot at pole.

I suppose that is a possibility. I'm probably hearing things, but the engine note seems to change at the point the speed declines. This is difficult to prove though, considering the overlapped feeds.

[Mchamilton]

I wonder that both Mercedes and Ferrari are far away from the limit of 15 000 rpm

As far as im awake its because the fuel flow limit means there's no extra power to be gained by revving any higher.

[Enstone]

Nobody was excpecting to see a Renault doing P7 in quali in that kind of circuit !
Well done i would say !

[Juzh]

Is it possible the Ferrari is unable to sustain MGU-H/MGU-K power delivery for the duration of this straight? It certainly looks like they ran out of something 100 meters too early, as the throttle remains fully open throughout while the speed, and engine revolutions, decline.

I've been saying this since melbourne qualifying, yet people were too oblivious to notice, and some continue to do so (head winds dropping speed by 7 kmh lol). Mercedes is still way above the rest in the ers department.

[SiLo]

The Mercedes seems like the more stable car, yet the Ferrari looks like it might be a touch faster. Difficult to tell.

98% of Hamiltons lap his steering inputs are so smooth and calm, it's incredibly when you watch the onboard then outboard videos where he is clearly hanging it out to dry.

[dans79]

The Mercedes seems like the more stable car, yet the Ferrari looks like it might be a touch faster. Difficult to tell.

98% of Hamiltons lap his steering inputs are so smooth and calm, it's incredibly when you watch the onboard then outboard videos where he is clearly hanging it out to dry.

To me, it looks like Merc is ahead when it comes to down force and power, but Ferrari edges them in mechanical grip and tire management.

With the lengths of the Merc, they should have plenty of room to tweak the rear suspension set-up.

[bosanac1]

Turn 7 is insane this year.


comparison from torro rosso last year to this year.

[godlameroso]

I'm far more impressed by turn 8, 7 is easy flat.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Is it possible the Ferrari is unable to sustain MGU-H/MGU-K power delivery for the duration of this straight? It certainly looks like they ran out of something 100 meters too early, as the throttle remains fully open throughout while the speed, and engine revolutions, decline.

I've been saying this since melbourne qualifying, yet people were too oblivious to notice, and some continue to do so (head winds dropping speed by 7 kmh lol). Mercedes is still way above the rest in the ers department.

I agree. Unless Ferrari improves, they would be easy meat for Baku and Mexico qualifying.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I wonder that both Mercedes and Ferrari are far away from the limit of 15 000 rpm

Max fuel is regulated to begin at 10.5k rpm, there is absolutely no advantage to running much faster than that(only disadvantages). As revs climb past 10.5k boost must decline, which would also decrease MGUH harvesting.

The fuel flow rate does not stop them from running up to 15K rpm, but the regs keep them at around 10.5k rpm.

Efficiency also decreases as rpm increases, the faster the engine ins running the less time the fuel has to burn.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Didn't the FIA say they want more consistency in their decisions?

They aren't even consistent in their inconsistency. The FIA are some of the worse refs in professional sport, and they have the full use of instant replay, its a clown show over there. They are professional idiots when it comes to refereeing the sport, but they love to stick their noses into things that really should not concern them.