2017 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, April 14-16

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Seeing as though he was let past twice then yes why shouldn't he?

With this thought process, you are only bound for more agony as the season progresses. Good luck to you on that.

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/04/17/ ... at-at-all/

Formula 1 world champions Mercedes have indicated they may increasingly have to favour Lewis Hamilton over new team mate Valtteri Bottas to counter the threat posed by Ferrari’s Sebastian Vettel.

I don't have a problem with it but let's not try and pretend that Bottas is not a clear number 2.

Well, those whom you have seen pretending, probably need the recall of the big picture again.
1. Bottas was the BEST OPTION available for Mercedes after all the drivers were locked down in contract. Not the most preferred one.
2. A new driver coming to a new team, going against a driver who is not just the fastest qualifier and racer out there (arguably), but a battle hardened one from the last 3 years,
3. A Mercedes management who are fed up of the negative publicity received for so many unsavory incidents between their drivers in the last 3 years.
4. A new driver who cannot dictate terms.

Last but the recent phenomenon. A Resurgent opposition that is forcing Mercedes' hand to play differently than they did in the last 3 years. A Recipe for and reason enough to install a defacto No.1 and 2.

I did asked the question, what would Mercedes do, now that Lewis is 20 points ahead of Bottas and Vettel is breathing down their neck. I got the answer. Not surprising one though. With such a strong Ferrari, Mercedes cannot afford to allow their drivers to take points off each other and every point lost, might just prove crucial towards the end of the season. What is wrong in that? Ferrari is doing the same and no one is blaming them. Why should Mercedes satisfy stakeless keyboard warriors over these forums by compromising their WDC situation?

[Wass85]

With this thought process, you are only bound for more agony as the season progresses. Good luck to you on that.

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/04/17/ ... at-at-all/

I don't have a problem with it but let's not try and pretend that Bottas is not a clear number 2.

Well, those whom you have seen pretending, probably need the recall of the big picture again.
1. Bottas was the BEST OPTION available for Mercedes after all the drivers were locked down in contract. Not the most preferred one.
2. A new driver coming to a new team, going against a driver who is not just the fastest qualifier and racer out there (arguably), but a battle hardened one from the last 3 years,
3. A Mercedes management who are fed up of the negative publicity received for so many unsavory incidents between their drivers in the last 3 years.
4. A new driver who cannot dictate terms.

Last but the recent phenomenon. A Resurgent opposition that is forcing Mercedes' hand to play differently than they did in the last 3 years. A Recipe for and reason enough to install a defacto No.1 and 2.

I did asked the question, what would Mercedes do, now that Lewis is 20 points ahead of Bottas and Vettel is breathing down their neck. I got the answer. Not surprising one though. With such a strong Ferrari, Mercedes cannot afford to allow their drivers to take points off each other and every point lost, might just prove crucial towards the end of the season. What is wrong in that? Ferrari is doing the same and no one is blaming them. Why should Mercedes satisfy stakeless keyboard warriors over these forums by compromising their WDC situation?

If they make the point that they are above a number 1 and number 2 driver then they should be put on the spot when they contradict their words, it really is that simple.

[mani517]

VETTEL fans:
- VET's start was better than HAM's, he took the fight to HAM and won the corner. VET could follow BOT close enough, FERRARI performs better in slip steam
- VET *DIDN'T* show the true pace at the end, saving the car for another day is really important from the reliability stand point
- HAM took the responsibility for his mistake and the PENALTY was right. If HAM didn't incur the penalty VET *WOULD* have used a bit more from reserve to manage the desired gap to HAM

HAMILTON fans:
- HAM started on the dirty side of the track, he was at a disadvantage -- *HAD* he started from pole he *WOULD* have run away from VET
- HAM showed blistering pace on his last stint, there was no proof that VET had enough in reserve. VET *MAY* not survive a straight fight with HAM
- BOT didn't show same pace as HAM, so, was rightly asked to let HAM pass. No point is wasting time behind BOT when there is a *REAL* chance to catch VET
- without the 5 seconds PENALTY, he *WOULD* have caught VET (or if you like a bit extreme, he *WOULD* have *WON* the race)

BOTTAS fans:
- it was unfair that MERCEDES asks BOT to move over so early in the season, they should take some responsibility for ruining BOT's race with tire pressure issue and poor pit stop
- HAM is familiar with the team and their way of working + he had inputs on this car's development, so, it is easier for him to extract the performance from it. BOT is new to the team, car wasn't exactly designed with him in mind, so, he'll need time to learn and adapt - it is just his 3rd race. Don't write him off yet.

MERCEDES fans:
- MERCEDES blew FERRARI away in the quali, and HAM's last stint was phenomenal. Clearly, MERCEDES is a faster car than FERRARI

FERRARI fans:
- FERRARI set their car up for the race, so, quali deficit isn't indicative of true performance gap. VET's race pace/win confirms the same in hindsight.
- FERRARI runs well in slip-steam, so, it is a better all-rounder than MERCEDES

etc. etc.

So, there is an argument for everyone's liking.

[Wass85]

Hamilton claimed he had no DRS in his second Q3 run, can anyone confirm this as it seems very strange to me.

[dans79]

Bottas gave up the place, because he didn't have the pace he said as much him self.

He didn't volunteer to give the place up did he?

Whatever, your agenda is so blatantly obvious it's sad.

[Fifty]

One thing no one is talking about is car part allocation. For instance, Vettel and Kimi both get to run the new parts. (Not good for kimi considering his lack of performance)
Alonso has in his contract that he alone gets the newest greatest and best. That vehicle development will be to benefit his style only. It was the same way at Ferrari. (Sucks for his team mate, but it ensures that Fernando gets the faster car and better times)

At redbull, between vettel and Webber, vettel got the better stuff. Same development strategy. It was one of the points Webber hinted at that "will all come out in (his) book" etc etc. (that may change now that they are friends again)

So my question is: do Hamilton and bottas both get to run the newest and latest aero parts etc? Or does hami get it guaranteed and then bottas gets the updates later? Is the development strategy there for each car individually based on the driver or is the whole engineering team focused only on hami and bottas has to drive with what suits hami?


I think this is what slowed vettel down at Ferrari last year. They had their engineers building two slightly diffeeent cars all season. Slowed development which is why they got slower and slower as the races progressed in comparison to Merc and RB...

[nevill3]

........
Alonso has in his contract that he alone gets the newest greatest and best. That vehicle development will be to benefit his style only. It was the same way at Ferrari. (Sucks for his team mate, but it ensures that Fernando gets the faster car and better times)
........

Do you have a source for this, I personally find it hard to believe that McLaren would agree to develop a car solely with Alonso's driving style mind and to the detriment of the teams chances of winning a constructors championship.

[nevill3]

As for Mercedes favoring Hamilton it is not in their interest to do this (yet). They have stated that their drivers are free to race just like last year. Last year Rosberg was asked to move aside when he was jeopardizing the teams chances of winning in Monaco. Hamilton was asked to move aside for Rosberg and insisted that he would only do so when Rosberg had caught him, which he was unable to do.

This time Hamilton caught Bottas quickly and there was no team benefit to keeping Bottas ahead and potentially preventing a Mercedes victory. I am sure if Bottas had been able to hang on to Hamilton's tail, Hamilton would have let him pass but Bottas was too far behind, Hamilton would have had to slow so much he would have been in danger of either cooling important mechanical items too much or incurring another penalty for driving too slowly, imagine the lapped cars suddenly coming across Hamilton cruising to let Bottas catch him. The potential for accidents would not have been acceptable.

All this talk of duplicity is unwarranted, just like the talk last year of conspiracies was unfounded media hype designed to attract attention to promote sales, improve profits or to attempt to explain why a favored driver was not a champion, it was just bad luck and circumstance coupled with Rosberg raising his game and totally focusing on his goal.

Ferrari did well, a perfect execution of a predetermined strategy that gave them the best chance of victory.

[Manoah2u]

Hamilton claimed he had no DRS in his second Q3 run, can anyone confirm this as it seems very strange to me.

confirmed, you can actually see it on the videos.

[Schuttelberg]

One race? That was race 3. Bottas was nowhere in race 1, cocked up in race 2 and now was way off the pace in race 3. How much longer do Mercedes wait? Until the WDC is out of reach?

Ah point taken...

Jesus christ, some guys are writing off Bottas after THREE races this is crazy....

It's not too hard to figure out that he lost out in the first phase of the race due to tire issues and maybe his setup was more biased to qualy which hurt him for the rest of the race...
(If i'm not mistaken he finished less than two secs behind HAM in Australia, that's hardly "nowhere"...)

Well seeing as he was still unable to beat Hamilton who was in a car that was down on power.

Like I said Mercedes may want to give both drivers a fair crack however when you have Vettel who is the clear number 1 driver at Ferrari. They the have a couple of choices.

Either they pull rank on Bottas who so far has looked slower than he team mate anyway of they let them race which probably just means him holding his team mate back at times and just give Vettel the WDC.

Couple of questions-

1) Vettel had to fight Raikkonen in China for track position not because of a poor start or qualifying but because of an ill timed SC. Yet, while it was clear to all and sundry that Vettel was the faster Ferrari driver, he still had to pass him on track.

2) Hamilton made a mistake in Q3 because of which he was behind Bottas, then had a mediocre start and the team then got Bottas out of the way so that he could challenge Vettel. It's clear to me that Mercedes made the right call by letting Hamilton get past Bottas, but once it was clear he wasn't going to get Vettel why didn't they swap them around?

Honestly, in my opinion, it would be smart of Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz to establish a pecking order because it seems to be that sort of championship but I would understand if they allow the guys to race till the summer break before making such calls.

However, your claim that Vettel is the number 1 at Ferrari is DUMB. Look for a better way to make your fav driver look good. If you'd seen all the races you'd know there is nothing of the sort but if there was then it's at Merc, not Ferrari!

[Wass85]

Hamilton claimed he had no DRS in his second Q3 run, can anyone confirm this as it seems very strange to me.

confirmed, you can actually see it on the videos.

Can you send me a link, I never saw these clips. Cheers

[Manoah2u]

Yes, just download the Sky F1 1080p HD TV show. Qually session and post-Qually session will do fine.

[Restomaniac]

Ah point taken...

Jesus christ, some guys are writing off Bottas after THREE races this is crazy....

It's not too hard to figure out that he lost out in the first phase of the race due to tire issues and maybe his setup was more biased to qualy which hurt him for the rest of the race...
(If i'm not mistaken he finished less than two secs behind HAM in Australia, that's hardly "nowhere"...)

Well seeing as he was still unable to beat Hamilton who was in a car that was down on power.

Like I said Mercedes may want to give both drivers a fair crack however when you have Vettel who is the clear number 1 driver at Ferrari. They the have a couple of choices.

Either they pull rank on Bottas who so far has looked slower than he team mate anyway of they let them race which probably just means him holding his team mate back at times and just give Vettel the WDC.

Couple of questions-

1) Vettel had to fight Raikkonen in China for track position not because of a poor start or qualifying but because of an ill timed SC. Yet, while it was clear to all and sundry that Vettel was the faster Ferrari driver, he still had to pass him on track.

2) Hamilton made a mistake in Q3 because of which he was behind Bottas, then had a mediocre start and the team then got Bottas out of the way so that he could challenge Vettel. It's clear to me that Mercedes made the right call by letting Hamilton get past Bottas, but once it was clear he wasn't going to get Vettel why didn't they swap them around?

Honestly, in my opinion, it would be smart of Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz to establish a pecking order because it seems to be that sort of championship but I would understand if they allow the guys to race till the summer break before making such calls.

However, your claim that Vettel is the number 1 at Ferrari is DUMB. Look for a better way to make your fav driver look good. If you'd seen all the races you'd know there is nothing of the sort but if there was then it's at Merc, not Ferrari!

Are you suggesting that Vettel isn't number 1 at Ferrari?

[SR71]

So what was Alonso's "engine problem"? Or did he just park his car because he felt like it? Class.

[FrukostScones]

VETTEL fans:
- VET's start was better than HAM's, he took the fight to HAM and won the corner. VET could follow BOT close enough, FERRARI performs better in slip steam
- VET *DIDN'T* show the true pace at the end, saving the car for another day is really important from the reliability stand point
- HAM took the responsibility for his mistake and the PENALTY was right. If HAM didn't incur the penalty VET *WOULD* have used a bit more from reserve to manage the desired gap to HAM

HAMILTON fans:
- HAM started on the dirty side of the track, he was at a disadvantage -- *HAD* he started from pole he *WOULD* have run away from VET
- HAM showed blistering pace on his last stint, there was no proof that VET had enough in reserve. VET *MAY* not survive a straight fight with HAM
- BOT didn't show same pace as HAM, so, was rightly asked to let HAM pass. No point is wasting time behind BOT when there is a *REAL* chance to catch VET
- without the 5 seconds PENALTY, he *WOULD* have caught VET (or if you like a bit extreme, he *WOULD* have *WON* the race)

BOTTAS fans:
- it was unfair that MERCEDES asks BOT to move over so early in the season, they should take some responsibility for ruining BOT's race with tire pressure issue and poor pit stop
- HAM is familiar with the team and their way of working + he had inputs on this car's development, so, it is easier for him to extract the performance from it. BOT is new to the team, car wasn't exactly designed with him in mind, so, he'll need time to learn and adapt - it is just his 3rd race. Don't write him off yet.

MERCEDES fans:
- MERCEDES blew FERRARI away in the quali, and HAM's last stint was phenomenal. Clearly, MERCEDES is a faster car than FERRARI

FERRARI fans:
- FERRARI set their car up for the race, so, quali deficit isn't indicative of true performance gap. VET's race pace/win confirms the same in hindsight.
- FERRARI runs well in slip-steam, so, it is a better all-rounder than MERCEDES

etc. etc.

So, there is an argument for everyone's liking.

+1
a refreshing post in all of this.