2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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uniflow wrote:
26 May 2017, 12:44
I see KTM have copied my Transfer Port Injection (TPI), same as the system I have shown here some time ago running on my YZ250 . Approx five years ago I had this system up and running with testing showing between 14 and 21% fuel savings over a standard YZ, same day, same track , same riders alternating bikes same top end power.This fuel burn has been tested again and again in the REAL world. It would seem KTM have seen my youtube and general postings on various forums, good on them, I'm glad someone has taken up the design and is using it, Im waiting on my free bike as payment :lol: . Same injector positioning aiming toward the incoming air in the B ports, same same. Actually I call it DTPI delayed transfer port injection as this is the trick. The fuel charge is delayed for a time before it is introduced into the air stream making it hard for the fuel to escape the cylinder ( runs out of time ) . Also the positioning of the injectors in the B ports helps stall short circuiting, off the pipe where short circuiting is worst.
As you would expect I have a mark two injection system that is BETTER than the original but it won't be shown here.
Twostrokes need a minimum of 40 to 1 oil at full throttle but under approx 60% torque they can be leaned out to 300 to 1 at idle.
The oil problem is a real problem for twostrokes but the raw hydrocarbons out the exhaust is the first big problem to overcome, this new system solves this problem (the mark two) . I have two oil less top ends on test here in my workshop, fourstroke bottom ends, also can't be show here. How ironic, looks like the twostroke is the future engine.
https://youtu.be/hOGZ5llowoU
https://youtu.be/1YG9ko8-Nwk
And the original TPI prototype first running in 2008, still running and entering events and no one is even aware of whats inside.
https://youtu.be/CnIemdISKrM

Good effort Uniflow, & ta for posting your achievements..
Early on in this thread you showed an interesting sleeve valve engine too.
I realize you have a lot on your plate, but any updates on this one to report?

For KTM to market the same basic set-up as pioneered by yourself Uniflow,
is quite kudos worthy, & interesting too, that your system was chosen over the
BMW developed DI unit that Husqvarna had 'ready to go' ~5 years ago, when KTM
took Husky over - from the BMW motorcycle division..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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Pinger wrote:
26 May 2017, 19:38

Pretty sure some (oil injected) 2T outboards allow for emergency return to port at very low throttle with an empty oil reservoir. Confirming how little oil they need at low load.
I read a theory that says 2T lubrication is via a reservoir of oil accumulated in the crankcase and flung by the crankwheels. Which would explain the plumes of smoke when then going from small to large throttle openings but what then provide lubrication for continued arduous operation if the oil has gone? Bogus or real theory?
Pinger, even 45 years ago the Kawasaki H2 750/3 featured oil injected directly to the crankshaft main bearings,
with shaped 'slingers' to enable it to flow via centrifugal force to the big-ends.
This pumping was flow-rate controlled by a 4th throttle cable, (& by rpm for pump frequency, being geared to the crank)..

The racing H2R variant kept the pumped crankshaft oiling, but in a fixed ratio, & added pre-mix to the fuel.
Of course the carb jetting was modified to include the oil volume in the fuel mix,
& slots were cut into the conrod at the big end eye, to allow the pre-mixed oil - direct access to the bearings..

You are correct that light use/soft tune generally requires very little oil, especially when it is discretely directed.

The final production H2 750/3s featured a reed valve transfer duct in the base of each crankcase, which used the
internal pressure pulses to pump any oil that had collected/dropped out, back into the crankshaft bearings of the
adjacent cylinder.
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Pinger
Pinger
9
Joined: 13 Apr 2017, 17:28

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

J.A.W. wrote:
27 May 2017, 01:38


Pinger, even 45 years ago the Kawasaki H2 750/3 featured oil injected directly to the crankshaft main bearings,
with shaped 'slingers' to enable it to flow via centrifugal force to the big-ends.
This pumping was flow-rate controlled by a 4th throttle cable, (& by rpm for pump frequency, being geared to the crank)..

The racing H2R variant kept the pumped crankshaft oiling, but in a fixed ratio, & added pre-mix to the fuel.
Of course the carb jetting was modified to include the oil volume in the fuel mix,
& slots were cut into the conrod at the big end eye, to allow the pre-mixed oil - direct access to the bearings..
45 years later we could go further and isolate the main bearings with seals, pump oil to them and via drillings between a main bearing and crankpin feed the big end directly, the expelled oil then being flung to lubricate the piston and cylinder. And...
J.A.W. wrote:
27 May 2017, 01:38
The final production H2 750/3s featured a reed valve transfer duct in the base of each crankcase, which used the
internal pressure pulses to pump any oil that had collected/dropped out, back into the crankshaft bearings of the
adjacent cylinder.
....similar to the above, using check valves and crankcase pressure, return the oil collecting in the crankcase back to the reservoir.

manolis
manolis
107
Joined: 18 Mar 2014, 10:00

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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Hello Uniflow.

You write:
“The oil problem is a real problem for twostrokes but the raw hydrocarbons out the exhaust is the first big problem to overcome”.



The port injection softens, but can’t really solve, “the raw hydrocarbons out the exhaust” problem of the 2-strokes because, no matter how late the fuel is injected into the transfer ports, the fuel cannot help entering into the cylinder several crankshaft degrees (say 60? 50? 40?) before the closing of the exhaust port.



A reasonable solution of the “first big problem” of the twostrokes is the direct injection of gasoline (as in the Rotax E-TEC 850).
However, this solution adds its own limitations to the system: if the injection starts early, unburned fuel can escape to the exhaust; if the injection starts late enough to not allow fuel to escape to the exhaust, the remaining time before the ignition may not be adequate for complete, clean and efficient combustion.
The pair of the secondary “indirect” injectors used by the Rotax 850 E-TEC for the higher rpm proves, beyond doubt, the “issue”: the engine at high revs scavenges the cylinder with air – fuel mixture as the old 2-strokes, making the loss of unburned fuel to the exhaust inevitable.


Another reasonable solution of the “first big problem” of the twostrokes is the compression ignition with direct injection (like the Wartsila X92 giant marine 2-stroke Diesel, the Junkers Opposed Piston Diesel, the Achates Power Diesel, the Rootes Diesel).
Even better with the PatOP Diesel (post at https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... start=1297 )

Image

the architecture of which:

provides some 30% additional piston dwell near the combustion dead center (direct injection diesels with 30% higher revs at their peak power),
receives the thrust loads away from the “ported” cylinder liner,
enables 4-stroke-like lubrication, etc, etc.


Another reasonable solution of the “first big problem” of the twostrokes is the early closing of the exhaust.
Easy to apply (but with some side effects) in the case of Opposed-Piston through-scavenged spark ignition engines.
Easy to apply (again with some side effects, like the added complexity and cost, the limited rev limit etc) in case of 2-strokes spark ignition engines having poppet valves (say, as in the Detroit Diesels, or as in the pattakon PatPortLess).


Another reasonable solution of the “first big problem” of the twostrokes is the use of asymmetric transfer in combination with an unconventional “stratified charge”:

Image

Image

Rich air-fuel mixture (say, from a carburettor) feeds the space underside the piston crown, inside the piston.
The scavenging starts with compressed clean air from the crankcase.
At the end of the exhaust (or even after the closing of the exhaust) the rich mixture passes to the cylinder through the asymmetric transfer ports.
Instead of waiting, with the fuel in the cylinder, till the exhaust port to eventually close, now the fuel entering into the cylinder finds the exhaust ports closed.




Regarding the other real problem of the 2-strokes, the lubrication:

With the thrust loads removed from the piston skirt, as in the Harmonic PatTwo (http://www.pattakon.com/pattakonPatTwo.htm ) :

Image

and with all the bearings in a separate / sealed / isolated compartment,

only the piston rings need lubricant to avoid metal-to-metal contact. This can bring the specific lube consumtion to the level of the good 4-strokes.


Alternatively, with 4-stroke crankcase (plain bearings with lubricant provided under pressure, splashed lubrication of the cylinder liner whereon the thrust loads are taken, oil scraper ring just above the wrist pin, cleaning and recirculation of the lubricant etc):

Image

and lower compression ring that, at BDC, abuts on the cylinder liner whereon 180 degrees earlier was abutting the oil scrapper ring, the lubrication is quite simple, efficient and controllable.

With loop scavenging, as above, spherical combustion chamber and a lot of squeeze, interesting spark ignition 2-strokes can result (4-stroke like lubrication, no unburned fuel to the exhaust, perfectly rid of inertia vibrations, etc).

And if the Opposed Piston arrangement is too long, slice the engine in the middle.


Thanks
Manolis Pattakos

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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Hi Manolis, re: the auxiliary TBI of the Ski-Doo 850, bear in mind that this is a WOT feature,
& is timed to function in relation to the strong harmonic exhaust pulse, thus minimizing excess emissions..

Another matter is the factor of 2T oil in 'total loss' systems, vs 4T oil - unintentionally 'burnt' by poor sealing..
..the 2T oil is injected clean, & is designed to burn, unlike 4T oil which is recycled & picks up noxious contaminants..
..which are then spread as serious aerosol contaminants.. as anyone who has smelt the difference knows..
..2T oil generally leaves a not unpleasant smell, when spent/expelled, whereas burnt 4T oil smells more like - toxic waste..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
646
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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pleasant smell or not, hydrocarbon in the air is a pollutant, regardless of source

but the powers-that-be conspire to pretend that where such emissions are 'natural' (eg from oilseed crop growth) they do not exist
W.H.O.- officially they do not exist until they drift into an urban area whereupon they are counted against said urban area
the same W.H.O. recently halved its own 'safe' level of atmospheric NOx

weather conditions (sustained temperature inversion) drive smog production, so rural smog is (in the UK etc) as likely as urban smog
but the p-t-b never call out rural smog and at the time everyone's happily outdoors getting sunburn anyway

manolis
manolis
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Joined: 18 Mar 2014, 10:00

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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Hello J.A.W.

According the Internet, the price of the recommended for the SkiDoo Rotax 850 E-TEC “XPS 2-stroke Fully Synthetic Oil” is more than 10$ per liter.

According the Rotax, it is required one liter of oil per 300Km for their 850 E-TEC sled, and 3*12.5=37.5 liters of gasoline for the same distance.

With 0.7$ per lit of gasoline in the US, the cost of the oil is calculated at 40% of the cost of the fuel.

Even if the oil is perfectly burnt (saving equal quantity of fuel), even if the burnt oil is not increasing the emissions (pretty unlikely), the additional running cost is not justified / accepted by the average driver / rider / user.


Instead of creating / using better lubricants, shouldn’t they focus on the reduction of the lube specific consumption to 4-stroke levels?




As for the auxiliary “indirect” injectors, in the videos they look to operate from below 5,000rpm to above 8,000rpm. Isn’t this a wide range to keep things tuned throughout?

Thanks
Manolis Pattakos

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
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Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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Hi Manolis, the Ski-Doo 850 is of course a high performance sports machine, not an economy car.
Cars which approach its specific output & power-to-weight means - are seldom bought for their frugal running capability.

& at the rpm range you noted for aux' injection - it is also using exhaust port height control valves - in pulse tuning.

If you can demonstrate that one of your designs can exceed the functional parameters of that Rotax/BRP 850,
(including its spatial packaging & durability), then perhaps you'd stand a good chance of marketing it..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

uniflow
uniflow
36
Joined: 26 Jul 2014, 10:41

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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https://youtu.be/6keqpL3rmwk

The sleeve valve engine running in a bike. Note the high tech pull start, I designed this when my hip was buggered and though I'd never kick start a bike engine again. New hip, now I can kick start all my bikes with the exception of the TT500, I've removed the kick start leaver before it back fires and ends in tears.
I've run the sleeve engine up and down the road a bit, not exactly lightening but it runs and is ready now for a tuning event.

And a walk around,
https://youtu.be/TmXFkbD3s5g

Muniix
Muniix
14
Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 13:29
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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uniflow wrote:
26 May 2017, 12:44
I see KTM have copied my Transfer Port Injection (TPI), same as the system I have shown here some time ago running on my YZ250 . Approx five years ago I had this system up and running with testing showing between 14 and 21% fuel savings over a standard YZ, same day, same track , same riders alternating bikes same top end power.This fuel burn has been tested again and again in the REAL world. It would seem KTM have seen my youtube and general postings on various forums, good on them, I'm glad someone has taken up the design and is using it, Im waiting on my free bike as payment :lol: . Same injector positioning aiming toward the incoming air in the B ports, same same. Actually I call it DTPI delayed transfer port injection as this is the trick. The fuel charge is delayed for a time before it is introduced into the air stream making it hard for the fuel to escape the cylinder ( runs out of time ) . Also the positioning of the injectors in the B ports helps stall short circuiting, off the pipe where short circuiting is worst.
As you would expect I have a mark two injection system that is BETTER than the original but it won't be shown here.
Twostrokes need a minimum of 40 to 1 oil at full throttle but under approx 60% torque they can be leaned out to 300 to 1 at idle.
The oil problem is a real problem for twostrokes but the raw hydrocarbons out the exhaust is the first big problem to overcome, this new system solves this problem (the mark two) . I have two oil less top ends on test here in my workshop, fourstroke bottom ends, also can't be show here. How ironic, looks like the twostroke is the future engine.
https://youtu.be/hOGZ5llowoU
https://youtu.be/1YG9ko8-Nwk
And the original TPI prototype first running in 2008, still running and entering events and no one is even aware of whats inside.
https://youtu.be/CnIemdISKrM
Now that is cool, fair dinkum, proven innovation, and as it seems copied by the leading two stroke motorcycle vendor.

I wonder if adding a Sensata CPOS sensor and my realtime physics engine management unit would provide better control of injector and ignition timing? Reading the cylinder pressure 15k times per second and implementing some simplified physics models to control injection and ignition could really make it perform, plus the normal set of engine sensors, the latest from Infineon/Rutronix would also be needed, but the real smarts comes from the Cylinder Pressure Only Sensor. Software being lighter than Hardware it is now the way to go, one can calculate lots of virtual sensor data given enough flops to improve engine control.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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uniflow wrote:
29 May 2017, 02:11
https://youtu.be/6keqpL3rmwk

The sleeve valve engine running in a bike. Note the high tech pull start, I designed this when my hip was buggered and though I'd never kick start a bike engine again. New hip, now I can kick start all my bikes with the exception of the TT500, I've removed the kick start leaver before it back fires and ends in tears.
I've run the sleeve engine up and down the road a bit, not exactly lightening but it runs and is ready now for a tuning event.

And a walk around,
https://youtu.be/TmXFkbD3s5g
Excellent effort there Uniflow, & ta for posting your progress here..

If you haven't seen it - back on page 120 - I posted a few patents, the 1st listed is a Yamaha one from 1970,
for an injector that fired into the 'boost' port, & was on their GL 750/4 2T road bike prototype, but never sold..

( Does anyone recall 'Luc' who was last here about a year ago, boasting that details of the fabulous 'Ryger' 2T
would be posted by him 'very soon' - or some-such variant on his 'tease' ? )
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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Pinger wrote:
25 May 2017, 13:46
That's pretty much the way that divergent cones adopted by those racing outboards came to be as well I think. In their case, ''sucking out the heat'' was paramount. The development of expansions with a convergent cone appears to be a little accidental also - making efforts to quieten the megaphone, some found the engine ran better. I guess the science of calculation came later. Possible I suppose that many were working completely oblivious as to what others were doing and had done before. I don't suppose if you'd just 'invented' the expansion chamber that was giving your bikes such an advantage you'd be telling everyone you got the idea from a tractor...
Actually P, ol' Adolf sponsored the science examining the ideas of Kadenacy re: the sonic pulse in shaped tubes..
Hitler was a keen 'motorhead' who wanted the Nazi race, ah bike racing - teams at the I.o.M. - to win..
..but the science behind the 'expansion chamber' was a spin off from the 'V1' cruise missile pulse-jet tech..

See: http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/rep ... m-1131.pdf
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Muniix
Muniix
14
Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 13:29
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

manolis wrote:
25 May 2017, 18:04
Muniix wrote:
25 May 2017, 16:08
I still haven't got any answer or proof of your claim that your Patrova head can achieve the VE you keep claiming. I have asked many times, only response if any is a deflection.

Then i am the I've that gets my posts deleted and abused, when clearly I'm not the one making unjustified claims.

I've been told these posts are hilarious at certain F1 teams. Marc stop wasting your time on this ....., But they are so funny, you take him down so well, causing him to over react in some instances, "how big big enough that you could put a while Bishop valve through it"



From page 97, post #1443:


On 13 January 2017 at 17:18, <man@pattakon.com> wrote:

Hello Marc.

. . .

Are you confident about your calculations?

A bet, starting with US1,000$ that increase geometrically depending on the mistake / error of your calculations (I explain in the following how) can make things interesting.

According your e-mails, there is a running (and in perfect condition) Honda CRF450 with the Bishop rotary valve on it.
I suppose there is a dyno test which can be reconfirmed any time it will be asked by me (we can arrange how).
I suppose, also, the dyno test is not confidential.

So, here is how the "bet" will "work":

You will start with the dyno test of the specific Bishop CRF450, you will calculate (it will be easy based on the 200% better flow of the Bishop) the fall of the peak power in case the cylinder head is replaced by a PatRoVa, and you will provide me the data.

Then I will modify a Honda CRF450 to PatRoVa (the form of the window(s) / ports, the diameter of the valve and every other detail of the design is my own business).
And I will dyno test it (with the dyno test being reconfirmable if you ask so (we can arrange the details)).

If you are correct, you will take my US1,000$ and the satisfaction you know what you say.

If not, for every +10% difference in peak power (the 10% refers to the peak power of "your" Bishop CRF450) from your calculations, the amount to be paid by you doubles.
For instance, if the Bishop CRF450 makes on the dyno 100PS, and according your calculations no more than 60PS peak power can be made by the PatRoVa CRF450, then, if the dyno writes 110PS for the PatRoVa CRF450 (i.e. 5*10% above your calculation), you will pay to the UNICEF (not to me) 2^5=32 times the initial amount of the bet (i.e. US32,000$) and you will sent me the receipt to publish it in the PatRoVa web page.

The US1,000$ I will pay in case you prove correct, may seem not much, however don't forget the cost to make a decent quality PatRoVa prototype,

If your friends at Bishop like so, they can bet, too.

Have a nice day.
Manolis Pattakos
You still fail to answer the question, how are you going to fill the cylinder with air at high engine speed? [...]

How much flow actually makes it into the cylinder at 12,000-15,000 rpm on a 62mm stroke engine as is the CRF450, as is my engine thou it is 120.65mm bore to get the ideal cylinder intake velocity and pumping efficiency from low speed and up with ultralean combustion and the ideal Fuel equivelence ratio.

I'm controlling the ideal liner temperature, and minimising losses from negative work, with a very favourable piston motion from offset crankshafts, all simulated and optimised with the latest models, verified by F1 engine designers.

Can you explain what the path of your air moles are going to be that standup to any analysis?

I ask again, what is the intake velocity, and sizing of the ports to fill the SuperQuadro 642.5cc's?
Last edited by Steven on 29 May 2017, 12:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed personal attacks

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

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Muniix wrote:
29 May 2017, 05:10

...when clearly I'm not the one making unjustified claims.

Again how much flow actually makes it into the cylinder at 12,000-15,000 rpm on a 62mm stroke engine as is the CRF450, as is my engine thou it is 120.65mm bore to get the ideal cylinder intake velocity and pumping efficiency from low speed and up with ultralean combustion and the ideal Fuel equivelence ratio.

I'm controlling the ideal liner temperature, and minimising losses from negative work, with a very favourable piston motion from offset crankshafts, all simulated and optimised with the latest models, verified by F1 engine designers.
Marc, try & be serious, a current Honda CRF 450 makes a max output of 53 hp @ 8,600 rpm..
.. Ok sure, you can rev it out to 10,000 rpm, where it still makes 49 hp.. but if you do race one hard..
..the piston will last ~20 hours.. .. & the big-end bearing gets fairly hammered by such work, too..
..so the mere idea of spinning it at "12,000-15,000 rpm" - practicably - & expecting it not to fail.. is simply absurd..

http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/mxas- ... -shootout/
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:
27 May 2017, 12:20
pleasant smell or not, hydrocarbon in the air is a pollutant, regardless of source

but the powers-that-be conspire to pretend that where such emissions are 'natural' (eg from oilseed crop growth) they do not exist
W.H.O.- officially they do not exist until they drift into an urban area whereupon they are counted against said urban area
the same W.H.O. recently halved its own 'safe' level of atmospheric NOx

weather conditions (sustained temperature inversion) drive smog production, so rural smog is (in the UK etc) as likely as urban smog
but the p-t-b never call out rural smog and at the time everyone's happily outdoors getting sunburn anyway
T-C, for sure, there is a significant difference in the harmful actions of certain HC particulates emissions.
CI 'soot' via combustion & those formed from 'contaminated' sump oil - such as burned by 4Ts.. are really toxic..

These things are known per lung-cancer research, but as to whether they feature in actual 'E-controls reg's' - ?..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).