2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[Vasconia]

Vettel considered he was brake tested and took revenge by his own intentionally crashing into Lewis. That´s unsportsmanlike no matter how you look at it, even if we consider Lewis did brake test him, what he didn´t, so Seb reaction is even more innappropiate. I think a 10 seconds stop&go penalty for an unsportsmanlike behaviour wich caused a colision is a joke

I don't think the collision was deliberate on Vettel's part, because he simply forgot to countersteer after he got alongside and waving his hands, and the FIA probably thinks so as well, so "only" 10s stop go. Stupid, yes. Intentional, no.

If that would be the case, the FIA should pull his superlicence for not able to control his car at 50 km/h, at a place on track where he shouldn’t be after he ran into the back of someone who was driving a more or less constant speed.

To collide with other car using your tyres can(easily) break your suspensión or damage other parts of the car, resulting in a DNF. I am pretty sure that Vettel is concious about and it woud be stupid to do it. So my logic conclusion is that he want crazy and did not think what he was doing(at least he didnt think in the consequences).

Vettel needs seriously to put his aggressiveness under control.

[iotar__]

Pretending that Vettel collided with Hamilton by accident (2nd one of course) not on purpose is a complete insanity, pinnacle of bad excuses and the reason I avoid even reading 90% of posts here, never mind replying to them.

From Hamilton's side (1st collision): "Silly people, you can't argue with FIA data" - unless it's Ferrari putting half of the car outside the starting box in China. You could measure it in m, cm and mm, yet it didn't matter, FIA threw away the data and did nothing . About 2 arguments from FIA:

1. "FIA data showed" from headlines You can't argue with hard data, unless it's not hard. In this case "correctly" and "according to previous SC situation". A question, if this incident happened during the first or only SC restart:
A. would it be considered brake testing
B. situation couldn't be judged because of the lack of previous reference points for "correct" driving
C. they would wait for the next clean SC restart to establish them?

2. "FIA's not hard data" but rather soft reason for slowing down: "avoiding overtaking safety car"
A. How about avoiding overtaking SC so that the car behind you doesn't end up in the back of yours?
B. It's an empty argument, just to fill the space of paper:
- What about a penalty for "unnecessarily slowing down" and "causing a collision"?
- No, it was necessary to avoid overtaking SC - says FIA working backwards from their own decision. They do that often.

Missing from FIA "data" was the actual event where it was Hamilton slowing down abruptly and not Vettel accelerating or reacting slowly that caused a collision. That's my telemetry and data. Not on purpose, brake testing describes event not intent. The purpose was (dis)advantage at the restart.

[ClarkBT11]

I don't particularly care for your interpretation of Vettel's face. It's irrelevant. Anxiety is easily mistaken for arrogance when you have no choice but to say something when you don't really want.

He'll undoubtedly be talking directly with the FIA, that's where he gets to make his case. Everywhere else he's probably better off just shutting up about it until Ferrari is safe that the FIA won't be taking any further action against them.

Like you said before it's not Vettel's first rodeo, and his personality and decision making has previous to which adds to my interpretation. Vettlel did give us an answer in the post race interview, he was not denying it was intentional and showed no remorse for his actions. "that's what happens when you get brake tested. He thought that crashing into Hamilton the second time was a reasonable reaction.

Agree, reading Vettel comments he´s not apologizing or anything, but trying to convice people his reaction after first collision was appropiate...

So no remorse after intentionally causing a collision as a revenge, FIA should take note and act, but if they do the season is over, so once again politics will be prioritized over what is fair/sportsmanlike and Vettel will not receive any further penalty

DSQ from this race wouldn't alter the championship by a lot. Hamilton feels confident he has the upper hand in the championship now with the car and a psychological upper hand. "It's hammer time"

MTV should do a celebrity death match to settle the score, Vettel would chop Hamilton's​ head off just after the bell pushing the rules to the limit....

[Jolle]

I don't think the collision was deliberate on Vettel's part, because he simply forgot to countersteer after he got alongside and waving his hands, and the FIA probably thinks so as well, so "only" 10s stop go. Stupid, yes. Intentional, no.

If that would be the case, the FIA should pull his superlicence for not able to control his car at 50 km/h, at a place on track where he shouldn’t be after he ran into the back of someone who was driving a more or less constant speed.

To collide with other car using your tyres can(easily) break your suspensión or damage other parts of the car, resulting in a DNF. I am pretty sure that Vettel is concious about and it woud be stupid to do it. So my logic conclusion is that he want crazy and did not think what he was doing(at least he didnt think in the consequences).

Vettel needs seriously to put his aggressiveness under control.

If you look at the footage, Hamilton was looking to the right, guess Vettel’s “nudge” was to get his attention.

[Jester Maroc]

How is it that of these two incidents...

1) Vettel crashing into Hamilton's rear...

2) Vettel steering into Hamilton on the straight...

...people feel it is more likely for #2 to be accidental? Simply unbelievable...

[Vasconia]

How is it that of these two incidents...

1) Vettel crashing into Hamilton's rear...

2) Vettel steering into Hamilton on the straight...

...people feel it is more likely for #2 to be accidental? Simply unbelievable...

Vettel behaved like an irrational idiot, irrational idiots do strange things.

[Jester Maroc]

How is it that of these two incidents...

1) Vettel crashing into Hamilton's rear...

2) Vettel steering into Hamilton on the straight...

...people feel it is more likely for #2 to be accidental? Simply unbelievable...

Vettel behaved like an irrational idiot, irrational idiots do strange things.

Agreed. My point though is that some "people" on this forum are similarly irrational at the moment.

[Santozini]

For everyone saying it Vettel's penalty was not enough, remember that Hamilton might have lost the race due to the headrest problem, but Vettel also lost it since he would have been way ahead without the penalty (which was deserved)

[Vasconia]

How is it that of these two incidents...

1) Vettel crashing into Hamilton's rear...

2) Vettel steering into Hamilton on the straight...

...people feel it is more likely for #2 to be accidental? Simply unbelievable...

Vettel behaved like an irrational idiot, irrational idiots do strange things.

Agreed. My point though is that some "people" on this forum are similarly irrational at the moment.

Yes, I understand what you men. I was just pointing out that when someone goes crazy makes stupid thing without a real-conscious will to do it.

[bonjon1979]

He also got 3 penalty points three more and he'll have to miss a race as I believe he had 6 already.

Tbh I was surprised that he wasn't DSQ'd. It sets a dangerous precedent. ie if you deliberately drive into an opponent then you only get a stop go penalty. It does beg the question, what does one have to do to get a disqualification?

Remember we were under the safety car yesterday. no overtaking allowed. These rules are there for the safety of all involved. I'm not going to pretend that Seb was putting lives at risk but you can not have drivers making judgement calls on that sort of thing during a race. Under the safety car you have to behave immaculately and seb's behaviour fell way short of that.

What do you need to do to get DQ'd if deliberately crashing into someone under the safety car isn't enough?

[Restomaniac]

Fine so the next time someone takes the law into their own hands like Vettel did it will just be a stop and go then? I think we both know the answer to that question.

Maybe I didn't explain well enough, I agree that the 10 second stop-go was insufficient and suggested some longer penalties, but it was the hardest they could go without resorting to a DSQ which I think would be too hard line. The last situation like this I remember is Maldonado on Hamilton in Spa qualifying (2011 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkrtpi ... shortfilms) or Maldonado and Perez in free practice at Monaco (2012 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr4ei0 ... p-fp3_auto). Neither resulted in a race ban, Maldonado was only given a 5-place penalty http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94028 for the Hamilton incident and a 10-place penalty at Monaco. This may not be the last we hear of this though, there is precedent for the FIA to tack on additional penalties if they feel the original was too lenient.

Fair enough. Sorry for the reaction.

[TAG]

After thinking about this a bit overnight; the race results yesterday were manipulated by the stewards to maintain the WDC battle. There was absolutely no reason to wait as long as they did to hand Vettel his wristslap otherwise.

[Andres125sx]

Vettel considered he was brake tested and took revenge by his own intentionally crashing into Lewis. That´s unsportsmanlike no matter how you look at it, even if we consider Lewis did brake test him, what he didn´t, so Seb reaction is even more innappropiate. I think a 10 seconds stop&go penalty for an unsportsmanlike behaviour wich caused a colision is a joke

I don't think the collision was deliberate on Vettel's part, because he simply forgot to countersteer after he got alongside and waving his hands, and the FIA probably thinks so as well, so "only" 10s stop go. Stupid, yes. Intentional, no.

He fogot to countersteer????

That´s even more comical to those stating he lost control because he was waving his hand and with only one hand in the wheel he couldn´t control the car.... Like if F1 wouldn´t need to control his wheel with one hand several times per lap to adjust mappings, brake bias, drinking, radio coms, differential lock...

What sort of F1 driver can´t control his wheel with one hand or forget to use the wheel to avoid a contact with the car he´s looking at?


Sorry guys, but your excuses to justify Vettel are comical. He got distracted and assumed Lewis did brake test him, getting upset and reacting badly under pressure. You won´t ruin Vettel´s reputation by accepting this, but you´re ruining your own inventing funny excuses. No F1 driver will loose control because of using only one hand in the wheel, and no F1 driver will crash with any other car because of forgetting to use the wheel

[Jolle]

And what happens when someone hits Vettel twice?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124066

Vettel in a HAAS the rest of the season?

[Andres125sx]

Like you said before it's not Vettel's first rodeo, and his personality and decision making has previous to which adds to my interpretation. Vettlel did give us an answer in the post race interview, he was not denying it was intentional and showed no remorse for his actions. "that's what happens when you get brake tested. He thought that crashing into Hamilton the second time was a reasonable reaction.

Agree, reading Vettel comments he´s not apologizing or anything, but trying to convice people his reaction after first collision was appropiate...

So no remorse after intentionally causing a collision as a revenge, FIA should take note and act, but if they do the season is over, so once again politics will be prioritized over what is fair/sportsmanlike and Vettel will not receive any further penalty

Location: "madrid, Spain"
You should be well aware of alonso's famous hockenheim interview back in 2010. Here's a little reminder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVoLbUyI0YE

Alonso knows full stop the team orchestrated his win via forbidden team orders, yet is using every trick in the book dodging question after question, even though everyone knows he's flat out lying. That's because admitting anything would potentially fuel fia to pursue the matter further than they would otherwise. What's happening now with Vettel is EXACTLY the same story. Of course he's not going to admit a single thing and/or self-incriminate himself in the press, yet people are expecting him to do just that lol.

If you need to look at my location to then assume I´m a fanboy you must be missing any argument to keep the discusion alive

Also, how my location (Madrid, Spain) means somethin with a Vettel-Hamilton incident?

As an spaniard I should hate them both equally, as both of them have been tough Alonso´s rivals . What sort of twisted reasoning are you using to imply my location has some relevance when discussing about a Vettel-Hamilton incident?

In Spain we have a saying I´m not sure if it will make any sense when translated, but I´ll try anycase, my free translation says: "thiefs assume everyone is a thief to justify their robberies". If you assume I´m a fanboy with no reason that probably means the fanboy is you