McLaren MCL32 Honda

[DiogoBrand]

I have a question for people that understand something about aero:
From my understanding, a milti-element wing is used so that you can keep the air more energized without separation, which allows more aggressive angles of attack. Also from what I understand, energizing air and larger angles of attack, which are often associated with multi element wings, create more drag.
So if you compare McLaren's wing to the top three teams, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull have six-element wings, while McLaren has a 6 element wings with three slotted elements, which from my POV would behave somewhat like seven elements.

Long story short: Isn't McLaren's front wing draggier than the opposition's?

[Dipesh1995]

I have a question for people that understand something about aero:
From my understanding, a milti-element wing is used so that you can keep the air more energized without separation, which allows more aggressive angles of attack. Also from what I understand, energizing air and larger angles of attack, which are often associated with multi element wings, create more drag.
So if you compare McLaren's wing to the top three teams, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull have six-element wings, while McLaren has a 6 element wings with three slotted elements, which from my POV would behave somewhat like seven elements.

Long story short: Isn't McLaren's front wing draggier than the opposition's?

In theory, a greater a number of wing elements does mean you are able to run at higher AoA which does create more pressure drag and more lift.

However, having a larger number elements doesn’t automatically mean that the AoA of the wing has increased therefore the drag has not actually increased i.e if two wings were running at same AoA but one had more elements than the other, it’s not a given that the drag of the wing with more elements is greater.

[DiogoBrand]

I have a question for people that understand something about aero:
From my understanding, a milti-element wing is used so that you can keep the air more energized without separation, which allows more aggressive angles of attack. Also from what I understand, energizing air and larger angles of attack, which are often associated with multi element wings, create more drag.
So if you compare McLaren's wing to the top three teams, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull have six-element wings, while McLaren has a 6 element wings with three slotted elements, which from my POV would behave somewhat like seven elements.

Long story short: Isn't McLaren's front wing draggier than the opposition's?

In theory, a greater a number of wing elements does mean you are able to run at higher AoA which does create more pressure drag and more lift.

However, having a larger number elements doesn’t automatically mean that the AoA of the wing has increased therefore the drag has not actually increased i.e if two wings were running at same AoA but one had more elements than the other, it’s not a given that the drag of the wing with more elements is greater.

I understand that already, what I don't understand:
1 - Given the same angle of attack, wouldn't a wing with more elements create more drag simply by how much it energizes the flow?
2 - Why run more elements without increasing AoA?

[froggy]

Alonso used the new wing in Quali

[mmred]

I have a question for people that understand something about aero:
From my understanding, a milti-element wing is used so that you can keep the air more energized without separation, which allows more aggressive angles of attack. Also from what I understand, energizing air and larger angles of attack, which are often associated with multi element wings, create more drag.
So if you compare McLaren's wing to the top three teams, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull have six-element wings, while McLaren has a 6 element wings with three slotted elements, which from my POV would behave somewhat like seven elements.

Long story short: Isn't McLaren's front wing draggier than the opposition's?

In theory, a greater a number of wing elements does mean you are able to run at higher AoA which does create more pressure drag and more lift.

However, having a larger number elements doesn’t automatically mean that the AoA of the wing has increased therefore the drag has not actually increased i.e if two wings were running at same AoA but one had more elements than the other, it’s not a given that the drag of the wing with more elements is greater.

I understand that already, what I don't understand:
1 - Given the same angle of attack, wouldn't a wing with more elements create more drag simply by how much it energizes the flow?
2 - Why run more elements without increasing AoA?

1- no. if u have a variation of the same profile family and the profile is separated in more elements u should have (slightly ) less drag ( and less load ). the flux from the upper part of the first element raises the pressure on the lower part of the second element ( cause it s slower ) and not going on the top side of te second element it alleviates te pressure on it ( and so on ) therefore lowering the difference of pressure, the load but also preventing separation from too muc expansion on the lower part therefore lowering the wake drag

2- to have a cleaner flux to direct toward the sidepods and still mantain a bigger aero surface on the front, probably ( need cfd to be sure )

[Dipesh1995]

I have a question for people that understand something about aero:
From my understanding, a milti-element wing is used so that you can keep the air more energized without separation, which allows more aggressive angles of attack. Also from what I understand, energizing air and larger angles of attack, which are often associated with multi element wings, create more drag.
So if you compare McLaren's wing to the top three teams, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull have six-element wings, while McLaren has a 6 element wings with three slotted elements, which from my POV would behave somewhat like seven elements.

Long story short: Isn't McLaren's front wing draggier than the opposition's?

In theory, a greater a number of wing elements does mean you are able to run at higher AoA which does create more pressure drag and more lift.

However, having a larger number elements doesn’t automatically mean that the AoA of the wing has increased therefore the drag has not actually increased i.e if two wings were running at same AoA but one had more elements than the other, it’s not a given that the drag of the wing with more elements is greater.

I understand that already, what I don't understand:
1 - Given the same angle of attack, wouldn't a wing with more elements create more drag simply by how much it energizes the flow?
2 - Why run more elements without increasing AoA?

1. Its of my understanding that whilst you are correct that a wing of more elements does energise the boundary layer more frequently than a wing of lesser elements, this does not increase the drag. Assuming there is no flow separation, both wings will take the same amount of energy for a full pressure recovery to occur without separation of the boundary layer. It's just that the boundary layer of the wing with more elements has more energy due to its more frequent refreshment which is one of the reasons why it can run at a higher AoA.

In fact, you may see a reduction in drag. Assuming again there is no flow separation on either of the wings, one reason for the reduction in drag is that the flow will be laminar for a greater portion of the wing. This is due to the fresh boundary layer effect caused by the slot gaps. This allows for a thinner laminar boundary layer compared to a lesser element wing which would have a thicker boundary layer (very likely to be turbulent as well but this depends on the location of each slot gap and transition parameters i.e if we are considering the leading edge region of a wing, the flow would be laminar for both cases, the boundary layer however would be thicker for the wing of lesser elements). Therefore, this reduces the skin friction drag.

There are probably more reasons than this that I can't think of atm

2. Increasing AoA isn't the only reason to run more elements. In the case of the new McLaren wing, the increased number of slots at the inboard section strengthens the Y250 vortex whilst the increased number of slots at the footplate strengthens the edge vortex all whilst keeping the AoA the same as the previous wing.

[hollus]

Diogo, also keep in mind that these wings have to work under many different conditions.
It might be that the wing worked well up to 250 km/h but started to see flow separation thereafter, and that the new slots, while maintaining the same function, now allow it to work up to 270km/h or in cross winds.
Note, I am not saying that this is the case, this is just wild speculation for argumentative purposes.

[BloodLad91]

In theory, a greater a number of wing elements does mean you are able to run at higher AoA which does create more pressure drag and more lift.

However, having a larger number elements doesn’t automatically mean that the AoA of the wing has increased therefore the drag has not actually increased i.e if two wings were running at same AoA but one had more elements than the other, it’s not a given that the drag of the wing with more elements is greater.

I understand that already, what I don't understand:
1 - Given the same angle of attack, wouldn't a wing with more elements create more drag simply by how much it energizes the flow?
2 - Why run more elements without increasing AoA?

1. Its of my understanding that whilst you are correct that a wing of more elements does energise the boundary layer more frequently than a wing of lesser elements, this does not increase the drag. Assuming there is no flow separation, both wings will take the same amount of energy for a full pressure recovery to occur without separation of the boundary layer. It's just that the boundary layer of the wing with more elements has more energy due to its more frequent refreshment which is one of the reasons why it can run at a higher AoA.

In fact, you may see a reduction in drag. Assuming again there is no flow separation on either of the wings, one reason for the reduction in drag is that the flow will be laminar for a greater portion of the wing. This is due to the fresh boundary layer effect caused by the slot gaps. This allows for a thinner laminar boundary layer compared to a lesser element wing which would have a thicker boundary layer (very likely to be turbulent as well but this depends on the location of each slot gap and transition parameters i.e if we are considering the leading edge region of a wing, the flow would be laminar for both cases, the boundary layer however would be thicker for the wing of lesser elements). Therefore, this reduces the skin friction drag.

There are probably more reasons than this that I can't think of atm

2. Increasing AoA isn't the only reason to run more elements. In the case of the new McLaren wing, the increased number of slots at the inboard section strengthens the Y250 vortex whilst the increased number of slots at the footplate strengthens the edge vortex all whilst keeping the AoA the same as the previous wing.

My theory: The multi element inner section is for strengthening y250 vortex which will seal the diffuser better increasing clean downforce generated from floor, this will allow to take some drag off the car from other elements

[Thunder]

Guys keep in Mind this Thread is about the Technical Aspects of the Car, not Laptime analysing. Deleted some Posts.

[wesley123]

My theory: The multi element inner section is for strengthening y250 vortex which will seal the diffuser better increasing clean downforce generated from floor, this will allow to take some drag off the car from other elements

considering how the pressure difference would be reduced because of the slots I would say it actually weakens the vortex. This is all about aero sensitivity imo

EDIT: Lmao I love the downvote, "cfd eyes". Sorry, but I don't need that to know that when you inject air from a higher pressure side to the low pressure side that this pressure difference would reduce. You also don't need "cfd eyes" to know that when something is caused by a pressure difference, that when this pressure difference will be lower, the effect will be weaker.

Sorry dude, but just like how you don't need "cfd eyes" to know this, I also don't need a calculator to know that -2+2=0

[BloodLad91]

My theory: The multi element inner section is for strengthening y250 vortex which will seal the diffuser better increasing clean downforce generated from floor, this will allow to take some drag off the car from other elements

considering how the pressure difference would be reduced because of the slots I would say it actually weakens the vortex. This is all about aero sensitivity imo

The slots are squeezing air at the divided bottom elements creating higher pressure and there is lower pressure behind top wing elements where airflow will accelerate strengthening y250 vortex

[mmred]

My theory: The multi element inner section is for strengthening y250 vortex which will seal the diffuser better increasing clean downforce generated from floor, this will allow to take some drag off the car from other elements

considering how the pressure difference would be reduced because of the slots I would say it actually weakens the vortex. This is all about aero sensitivity imo

The slots are squeezing air at the divided bottom elements creating higher pressure and there is lower pressure behind top wing elements where airflow will accelerate strengthening y250 vortex

we are comparing it with a standard non slotted solution

the flux that goes in the slots from the upper face of the flap to the lower face reduces the pressure difference at the tip of the upper flaps that is exactly what creates the y250 vortex therefore it REDUCES the vortex

controlling the vortex is about directing it correctly to seal the sides of the bottom but also reducing it
with no vortex at all it would be even better but well u need upper flaps and they have a tip

[DFX]

Anyone knows if Vandoorne runned the new spec FW in FP1 while Alonso was in the pits?

[Dipesh1995]

Anyone knows if Vandoorne runned the new spec FW in FP1 while Alonso was in the pits?

Yes he did.

[wesley123]

My theory: The multi element inner section is for strengthening y250 vortex which will seal the diffuser better increasing clean downforce generated from floor, this will allow to take some drag off the car from other elements

considering how the pressure difference would be reduced because of the slots I would say it actually weakens the vortex. This is all about aero sensitivity imo

The slots are squeezing air at the divided bottom elements creating higher pressure and there is lower pressure behind top wing elements where airflow will accelerate strengthening y250 vortex

Injecting air from top to bottom would reduce the pressure difference, and a vortex is largely based on this pressure difference. Thus, more slots=weaker vortex. It's main advantage here, and this is why Ferrari and Mercedes have a small upward shape here, is that it will allow the vortex to properly exist as air will be injected as it's effectiveness will change as the pitch changes. This is why front wings have 6 elements nowadays.