2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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zac510
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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GrandAxe wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 23:45
f1316 wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 22:57
I don’t know what commentary you’re listening to but if it’s Sky I couldn’t agree more; Crofty getting all defensive at the merest sign of any criticism from tweets doesn’t help either.

In terms of long runs, I’m not drawing any conclusions; Vettel actually was lapping the quickest at the end of the session but means very little, I think.

The Red Bull looked the quickest car today but that’ll all probably change as the others use quali modes and the track rubbers in. I still think it’ll be another Lewis/Seb shootout.
Its Sky. I believe most people who take out time to watch free practice want to get real insights into the state of each team/driver and what is going on on track, but instead of providing these things for the greater part of the event, Sky spent so much time trawling on and on through all sorts of low IQ, gossipy things, just to raise controversy for "discussion".

Yep, Red Bull tend to be really quick in FP1 and FP2, only to get beaten handily by Ferrari and Mercedes in Q3.
As soon as a TV station says "tweet us at... " it's like a byword for "we haven't got any content." to my ears!
I too dislike the fishing for controversy at all times. I think they're trying to replicate the 'debate' of internet forums but forums are full of bickering rude and unpleasant places at the best of times so I really don't want to hear that stuff in the middle of an F1 session too!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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SkyF1 is not great but it aint all that bad. I find the BBC to be a little worse, and the NBC commentary too tedious to follow; too much darting from topic to topic.
I will live with the clowns Krofty and Kravitz as long as they keep the credible figures like Brundle, Ant and Paul. Damon is not bad just a bit fidgety and Johnny is just there for comedy if you ask me.
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drunkf1fan
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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f1316 wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 22:57
GrandAxe wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 22:36
Lewis long FP2 runs look ominous, Ricciardo's as well.
The commentary is truly low quality, click bait stuff though - quite annoying.
I don’t know what commentary you’re listening to but if it’s Sky I couldn’t agree more; Crofty getting all defensive at the merest sign of any criticism from tweets doesn’t help either.

In terms of long runs, I’m not drawing any conclusions; Vettel actually was lapping the quickest at the end of the session but means very little, I think.

The Red Bull looked the quickest car today but that’ll all probably change as the others use quali modes and the track rubbers in. I still think it’ll be another Lewis/Seb shootout.
On longer runs, the general trend across 3-4 years now is if lets say if all three teams pull 1:21.5's in FP2, that Merc will have the highest race pace, Red Bull would be second and Ferrari would be third. In many many weekends Ferrari shows better fp2 pace than Merc but in the race Merc are faster and Ferrari are pretty much where they were in FP2. The general gist is, Ferrari seem to run close to normal race power and mid/lower fuel levels for their long runs, Merc seem to run completely loaded on fuel to get worst case scenario numbers and as such they are maybe a 1 second slower than Ferrari just on fuel. Red Bull seem to run lower fuel but lower engine power as well, likely due to the much poorer reliability of Renault in this era, so RBR lose less to Merc compared to Ferrari.

This I would say holds true for 80% of race weekends, sometimes it doesn't work out, sometimes one team can turn a tire on and runs better than expected or other weekends teams just can't make a tire work.

Also realistically Vettel's final 'faster' lap came after a 1:39 cooldown lap. Because there is so little deg here they are all likely temp limited more than anything else so running a stupidly slow lap lets the tires cool and you can do a faster lap. In that long run from Vettel he did I think 4 fast laps in a row before a cooldown lap, each cool down lap followed by a faster lap. THe longer run of fast laps is near enough a second off Hamilton. That is why Hamilton's looked so impressive, he managed 11 laps at that pace without traffic, and far fewer slow laps in between little spurts of pushing. RBR just didn't do anywhere near enough laps to know where they are really at except to say that in what few laps they did, they didn't look faster than Hamilton.


On Sky, as much as I really dislike Crofty and really can't stand Ted anymore now he's more gossip than spending real time showing detail on new parts compared to old parts, complaining about free practice is pretty silly overall.

Ultimately free practice is absolutely all over the place, there are long spells where teams don't come out at the start, long spells with only a couple of people on track and if it's wet it's often worse. Free practice isn't qualifying or the race, you can't just get commentary because for the most part very little interesting is going on. So they really have to be filler/casual in terms of commentary for free practice because otherwise 70% of the session would be dead air.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
28 Oct 2017, 13:37
SkyF1 is not great but it aint all that bad. I find the BBC to be a little worse, and the NBC commentary too tedious to follow; too much darting from topic to topic.
I will live with the clowns Krofty and Kravitz as long as they keep the credible figures like Brundle, Ant and Paul. Damon is not bad just a bit fidgety and Johnny is just there for comedy if you ask me.
Johnny is worth keeping around just in the off chance he gets 'bitched' by Alonso again.

jz11
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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I think FPx is all about testing correlation between the sim model back at the factory and the actual conditions on the track, if the correlation is correct, then it makes little sense to do any really meaningful testing of the actual pace during those sessions in front of all the competition, and Mercedes have shown in the past that if something is wrong in the setup, they can fix that problem (or most of it) just by running sims and adjusting the car accordingly, so I pay basically no attention to what is going on in FP, because sim is being improved all the time, so statistical analysis of FP and race performance from the past, when the sim wasn't working out good enough, or plain wrong, or wasn't as comprehensive as it may be today. Might as much guess the real pace of the cars by looking at the clouds above your house...

About the Sky commentary, I personally like what Ted is doing, he is gossiping, because if he just plain reveals something on TV that he overheard from a secret conversation, then the secret factor will go way up and there will be absolutely no info at all, this is fun, seeing what turns out to be true and what is not, and on top of that, vast majority of the tv audience just tune in into the race and want to see sparks and overtakes, they fall asleep 10 seconds into a highly technical conversation between Scarbs and anyone else regarding the new barge boards on the McLaren and how they really work the Y250 vortex... and around 0.01% of the audience would actually turn the volume up to not miss a word. Sad, but true.

p.s. regarding the sim and FPx, just to add a little bit, if the sim is working correctly time and time again, then there will be less and less "real" pace information in the FP sessions, because the team will not want to reveal the amount of their real advantage over the competition, just so they can be supposdly be almost in the reach, but during the race, if there are no accidents and unexpected things at the start, then this leader will simply drive to target times to conserve the car, because there is nothing to be gained by pushing it to the limit, and I think we already see that 'today'.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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Good point. Can we say then that Mercedes running the most laps (especially Bottas) means they are taking extra care calibrating their simulator for the race?
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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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I used to love Sky. I thought Brundle was absolutely outstanding. I stay in India and have no choice but to watch the BBC feed and Ben Edwards and David Coulthard are just pissing off. Edwards only understands two words- Lewis and Hamilton. The only amazing chap is Chandokh.
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Phil
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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Apparently, Hamiltons long run pace on the ultra softs was ominous... not outright fastest but without a drop and extremely constant throughout 28 laps. No one did as many and as constant.
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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Phil wrote:
28 Oct 2017, 15:42
Apparently, Hamiltons long run pace on the ultra softs was ominous... not outright fastest but without a drop and extremely constant throughout 28 laps. No one did as many and as constant.
Indeed. When a driver can stick that consistently to a set time it means one thing. He is driving in cruise mode well inside the capabilities of himself, the car and the tyres.

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ringo
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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Can a team form its strategy around the pace of the competition?
For example if redbull see that Merc are showing very strong long run pace, can that be the basis of the strategy and then they look on their own strengths and weaknesses?
I think "keeping your head down" and do your own thing, may not be the best in terms of race strategy. Redbull can see merc up front then decide to try something riskier but can result in a win for instance.
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Moose
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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ringo wrote:
28 Oct 2017, 16:37
Can a team form its strategy around the pace of the competition?
For example if redbull see that Merc are showing very strong long run pace, can that be the basis of the strategy and then they look on their own strengths and weaknesses?
I think "keeping your head down" and do your own thing, may not be the best in terms of race strategy. Redbull can see merc up front then decide to try something riskier but can result in a win for instance.
Yes - for example, if you can tell that you have better pace on the softer tyre, but worse on the harder tyre, you can form your strategy around making sure that you start on the softer, get track position, and then block them while they have a pace advantage on the harder.

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TAG
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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ringo wrote:
28 Oct 2017, 16:37
Can a team form its strategy around the pace of the competition?
There are entire banks of people on staff to do just that. In a sense, when you know you don't have a chance in a straight fight, the only alternative is an alternative strategy. At this point in the season the top three teams are locked in the championship results pretty much so why not gamble. I think we'll see a little of that from Red Bull this weekend.
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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Moose wrote:
28 Oct 2017, 16:42
ringo wrote:
28 Oct 2017, 16:37
Can a team form its strategy around the pace of the competition?
For example if redbull see that Merc are showing very strong long run pace, can that be the basis of the strategy and then they look on their own strengths and weaknesses?
I think "keeping your head down" and do your own thing, may not be the best in terms of race strategy. Redbull can see merc up front then decide to try something riskier but can result in a win for instance.
Yes - for example, if you can tell that you have better pace on the softer tyre, but worse on the harder tyre, you can form your strategy around making sure that you start on the softer, get track position, and then block them while they have a pace advantage on the harder.
True but Hamilton probably wouldn't on some level care.

I'm picturing the scene 'I'm quicker but I can't get past the RedBulls'.
'5th will do ya Lewis'......'Yep I'm not going to take any risks here. I'd like to win but the bigger picture and all that'.
Last edited by Restomaniac on 28 Oct 2017, 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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You guys are crazy! Ted and Brundle are great.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

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Phil wrote:
28 Oct 2017, 15:42
Apparently, Hamiltons long run pace on the ultra softs was ominous... not outright fastest but without a drop and extremely constant throughout 28 laps. No one did as many and as constant.
But the race is 71 laps, he'd have to run to lap 35 at least to make a one stop work. Unless he's planning a US and run S until the end.

On full tanks the lap time is at best high 1:20's but likely mid 21's, however the degradation and fuel effect means lap times will remain constant. The SS is useless as a race tire, the long run pace is inconsistent, the softs are marginally slower in the race but far more consistent.

I would do US to lap 31 and finish the race on Softs, the US SS strategy won't work as a one stop.

US to lap 24, US again to lap 48, and the final stint in SS would allow one to push hard the whole race without worrying about tire wear. The one stop is potentially faster but takes more management, any mistakes or inconsistency in pace will make it not work. If there is a safety car a two stop will be the faster strategy as it will mitigate the pit time loss, moreso if it's a virtual safety car.
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