2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

[banjo789]

p.s. not for a second I believe VET tried to damage HAMs tyre on purpose, waaaaaay too much of a risk for someone who needs to win or at least be second in the race. If that was Kimi doing that, it might more plausable, but it could be possible in one condition, if someone named Flavio would be managing Ferrari team

I think you need to reassess the risk. The only way Vettel stays in the championship is if Hamilton finishes outside the points. In an incident free race Lewis finishes either 2nd or 3rd and becomes the WDC, regardless of Vettels finishing place. Vettel has nothing to lose given those circumstances and the only way he can change the outcome of the WDC is to influence where Hamilton finishes and then worry about his own race. In essence very much like Hamilton at the last race of 2016.

[TAG]

p.s. not for a second I believe VET tried to damage HAMs tyre on purpose, waaaaaay too much of a risk for someone who needs to win or at least be second in the race. If that was Kimi doing that, it might more plausable, but it could be possible in one condition, if someone named Flavio would be managing Ferrari team

I think you need to reassess the risk. The only way Vettel stays in the championship is if Hamilton finishes outside the points. In an incident free race Lewis finishes either 2nd or 3rd and becomes the WDC, regardless of Vettels finishing place. Vettel has nothing to lose given those circumstances and the only way he can change the outcome of the WDC is to influence where Hamilton finishes and then worry about his own race. In essence very much like Hamilton at the last race of 2016.

Not worth getting into it guys. Hamilton is a four time WDC, and he's at the top or near the top of every other record that matters in the sport. Let history figure out what's what, you'll know better either way. In the mean time, enjoy the celebrations.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Is it only me or anyone else wonder, Vettel was violently swerving the steering left and right before he touched Lewis. Watching onboards of three of them, both Lewis and Max kept the steering locked to right in that turn and it was only Vettel who was going left-right-left-right. If there is an oversteer moment, which generally happen exiting a fast turn, it is natural for a driver to go left-right on steering to balance the oversteer, but when you have lost front-wing and you ARE SUPPOSED to have understeer, you are SUPPOSED to lock the steering to right and reduce the throttle input, as it was a right turn, just like the other two were doing. I don't understand the need for swerving the steering like that.

[santos]

Is it only me or anyone else wonder, Vettel was violently swerving the steering left and right before he touched Lewis. Watching onboards of three of them, both Lewis and Max kept the steering locked to right in that turn and it was only Vettel who was going left-right-left-right. If there is an oversteer moment, which generally happen exiting a fast turn, it is natural for a driver to go left-right on steering to balance the oversteer, but when you have lost front-wing and you ARE SUPPOSED to have understeer, you are SUPPOSED to lock the steering to right and reduce the throttle input, as it was a right turn, just like the other two were doing. I don't understand the need for swerving the steering like that.

I don't understand the need to make conspiracy about that. Well, i do. It was Lewis and a red car involved. If it was a Sauber and a Toro Rosso, it would be a race incident and no more talk about that.

[siskue2005]

Is it only me or anyone else wonder, Vettel was violently swerving the steering left and right before he touched Lewis. Watching onboards of three of them, both Lewis and Max kept the steering locked to right in that turn and it was only Vettel who was going left-right-left-right. If there is an oversteer moment, which generally happen exiting a fast turn, it is natural for a driver to go left-right on steering to balance the oversteer, but when you have lost front-wing and you ARE SUPPOSED to have understeer, you are SUPPOSED to lock the steering to right and reduce the throttle input, as it was a right turn, just like the other two were doing. I don't understand the need for swerving the steering like that.

i also believe there was something sinister in the way Vettel moved. that is not the way one corrects any oversteer, and he tried to puncture Max before and next was Lewis.
This is the only way he could stay in WDC contention. Anyways such moves do have consequences in future (karma) even when the FIA tend to have a blind eye in Vettel from the beginning

[sosic2121]

But maybe Vettel should still be banned from F1 forever just in case.
Moving a stearing wheel during corner should not tolerated.

[santos]

But maybe Vettel should still be banned from F1 forever just in case.
Moving a stearing wheel during corner should not tolerated.

Can you show me where is that written? Because i can't find it on the post that i wrote till today.

[digitalrurouni]

Funny how it looks from the outside; Hamilton like a gypsy primma donna wannabe rockstar, and Vettel the trusted family man. And yet when they get in the car and the visor goes down, it's just the opposite. Hamilton the gentleman, and Vettel the gypsy. I think the pressure got to Vettel immensely this season. Baku, Singapore and now here. We probably knew he wasn't maybe as good as Alonso or Hamilton wheel to wheel, but he's somehow managed to drag his reputation down right next to Ocon and Perez. He's in a rut and must pull himself out if he is to challenge for the title again. Maybe he can take a leaf out of Hamilton's book from his 2011 season.

I gotta agree. I think Vettel is a sore loser especially in the heat of the moment. He could have TOTALLY avoided Hamilton's rear tire. I must say it was reminiscent of something Rosberg would do like at Spa when they clashed. Poor showing from a 4 time champ! he has bucket loads of talent and a super fast car he could have lost that position but gotten it back in the race with race craft. I must say if I was Hamilton and I watched the replay I would take it as a triumph over Vettel - his weakness has been exposed.

[George-Jung]

Could we please stop this stupid Vettel blaming thing?!

I supported Vettel throughout this WDC (because Max had just too much trouble) and he sure made some silly mistakes, such as yesterday- it was just another clumsy mistake but never intentional.. it also shows how Vettel drove behind Hamilton in the cooldown lap that he respects Hamilton.

People shouldn't forget that this is all out racing, in the heat of the moment where drivers have to make several decisions in a split second.. some drivers are just better at it.

BTW.
Congrats to the Hamilton fans, he sure did deserve this one.

[dans79]

The best analysis I've seen of the turn 1 to 3 incident.



During the race, I didn't even notice that Max took a chunk out of Lewis's front wing an instant before Vettel made contact.

[TAG]

BTW.
Congrats to the Hamilton fans, he sure did deserve this one.

Don't congratulate me, This year I just stayed home and watched the races.

[drunkf1fan]

Max was absolutely fantastic today, the speed he was carrying was absolutely phenomenal, as all weekend really.
Second, absolutely stellar stuff from Alonso, i genuinly enjoyed that battle between him and Hamilton, that was golden.

Congrats and happy for Lewis, it was really unavoidable by now but the start gave for a very exciting race due to the contact. Lewis earned his title. Nice tension from seeing him having trouble progressing through the field then to find it back in the latter stage of the race and simply carve through the field.
Vettel did a magnificient job, was really heartbreaking to hear him ask how far he was behind Kimi and that that 'was too much'.

I personally think, but didn't have the data anyway, Ferrari made a mistake in pitting Vettel immediately, but i could have been very wrong offcourse.
The pitstop cost him a whole lot of time and ended him in very difficult traffic. I wonder whether it wouldn't have been smarter keeping him out a couple of laps more - IF his tires were intact - and use a SC or VSC to replace the wing - having said that, i haven't seen the aero and performance difference with 'intact' and 'damaged' Ferrari, so it's assuming things. It might have been manageable for a while, and he might have been drving in the top 5 for a while untill the VSC popped up and he would have benefitted from that and then have a much lesser space to cover, but that's all guessing.

Great race either way.

If it was just the damage from Max, they'd have kept him out and maybe replaced it at a pit stop but could well have not bothered, but the damage from hitting Hamilton was severe, this track is strangely(by layout) all about downforce because the track offers up so little actual grip.

It's also a track that rather like Sochi, with so little deg you can reasonably expect to pit once and have good pace throughout as Rosberg did, however Ferrari I'm not sure were even the second fastest race pace car, while Rosberg was in a by a huge margin the fastest car in that race. I'm just saying that he had little chance to really get back to 2nd as Rosberg did, but it was still likely the right move with that much damage involved.

In terms of traffic... honestly I've never seen so few cars so willing to defend against him. It was still very odd how easily people jumped out of his way, except Massa and Alonso who aren't looking to do the same thing. In fact it's often a case that people are scared to hold up a Ferrari except those drivers who don't want a Ferrari seat in the future or who are big enough names not to be pushed around. Some of those guys actively slowed in the first corner to let him by easily. the issue wasn't traffic really but simply that with that level of damage, the top three was already gone he was simply going to lose too much time either with damage or with a badly timed stop to end up on the podium.

[Just_a_fan]

About the first corner incident: I'm not sure that Vettel deliberately targeted Hamilton's tyre. I'd say it's 50/50 as we know he has been known to be a bit silly at times. That's now moot, so let's not worry about it anymore.

However, I think where Hamilton was unlucky was in Vettel having made contact with Max first. That removed the "safe" parts of the outer wing leaving, I'm sure, some nasty sharp edges. Had the Vet/Ham contact been the first one that the wing had received, I think Hamilton would likely have got away without a puncture.

Whatever the intentions of the various protagonists on Sunday, the result was a race with something to watch. Had the title contenders gone through T3 intact, we'd have had a very dull race. At least with them being forced to run from the back, we got to see something other than a procession up front. Whilst Vettel had a mountain to climb, there was, for a time anyway, a glimmer that he might be able to pull a remarkable result out of the bag. Let's face it, if he had done so, we would have been talking about it for years.

[GrandAxe]

A question which I have been wanting to ask for long. Where do you think do Lewis and Vettel rank among the greats of F1? Compared to the likes of Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Fangio, etc.
From my point of view, both Vettel and Lewis have always had a great car or a car that is in contention of wins in their title winning years. They have not had to be at a team and build a car. Schu stayed at Ferrari for 4 years before winning the title. Senna won in a Lotus. Senna and Prost helped develop that astonishing McLaren Honda in their fighting years. Whereas Vettel had an all-conquering Red Bull for 4 years and Lewis landed straight in a race-winning McLaren and suffered a bit in his first year at Merc before getting 3 severely dominant cars.

Its wrong to draw conclusions from such a weak set arguments, especially as those arguments on their own are somewhat inaccurate.

Firstly, no F1 championship (drivers or constructors) has been won in a poor car. It is always a combination of car and driver. The best drivers always get the best cars (Alonso is almost a singular aberration, but that's through his own choices).

Secondly, drivers cannot build cars - it is an immensely complicated job. They only provide feedback to the engineers, so lets not take credit away from numerous brains in the organisation that backs the driver. Indeed, many F1 employees come from a fighter jet background eg Martin Whitmarsh (former McLaren Technical Director) who used to be Manufacturing Director in charger of Hawk trainer and Harrier Jump Jet air frame production (for BAE), ever before stepping into F1.
There are several F1 firms that provide precision services for the military too, check this link for instance:
http://www.army-technology.com/features ... ront-line/

What would any driver be able to teach such infernally skilled types about building an F1 car?

Vettel didn't just land in a championship winning car either. He cut his teeth at Sauber. Vettel later joined Torro Rosso where he set a couple of F1 records - no mean feat.
Lewis joined McLaren in 2007 beside not just anybody, but the then reigning world champion, Fernando Alonso, and beat him - not many can beat a world champion in their rookie year. It isn't just that McLaren discovered Lewis either, at age 10 (emphasis 10) he approached Ron Dennis, asking to drive for him one day and got the reply that he still had some growing to do, nevertheless, three years later, McLaren signed him up on their driver development programme.

The long and short of the above is that F1 WDC's (especially multiple WDC's) are not random, everyday people, neither are F1 teams.

[digitalrurouni]

Is it only me or anyone else wonder, Vettel was violently swerving the steering left and right before he touched Lewis. Watching onboards of three of them, both Lewis and Max kept the steering locked to right in that turn and it was only Vettel who was going left-right-left-right. If there is an oversteer moment, which generally happen exiting a fast turn, it is natural for a driver to go left-right on steering to balance the oversteer, but when you have lost front-wing and you ARE SUPPOSED to have understeer, you are SUPPOSED to lock the steering to right and reduce the throttle input, as it was a right turn, just like the other two were doing. I don't understand the need for swerving the steering like that.

i also believe there was something sinister in the way Vettel moved. that is not the way one corrects any oversteer, and he tried to puncture Max before and next was Lewis.
This is the only way he could stay in WDC contention. Anyways such moves do have consequences in future (karma) even when the FIA tend to have a blind eye in Vettel from the beginning

Reminds me of Rosberg's Monaco qualifying lap where he went off track.

I will grant the tussle with Max and Vettel - racing incident. But given Vettel's Baku performance with Hamilton I think he immediately saw the red mist, and he hit Lewis. I will even give him a bit more benefit of the doubt and say it was NOT his intention to cause Lewis a puncture but I would not be surprised if he figured that 'hey my front wing is shattered already so there are some sharp bits I could use to sabotage my main competitor. He is gonna win the WDC anyway let me just make his day worse.'

But yeah as usual FIA's golden boy can do no wrong. It does not matter to me what one does at the end of the race in a cooling lap and being all sportsmanlike after damaging other people's cars during the race. Excuses like 'heat of the moment' and 'racing incident' are all just that - excuses. Hard for people to convince me that a 4 x WDC would have such miserable piloting skills.

That D61 YouTube analysis was a great video. I subscribed to his channel. Thanks for the share! This year's F1 championship is the best I have seen.