2021 Engine thread

[FrukostScones]

Why is the MGU-H being taken off the table? Heard that rumoured for a while, but to me it is the most interesting piece of technology in the hybrid era. Is it because it is the one with the highest RnD costs?

Yes i tinnk so, and difficult to master see Honda.

This PU proposal is rubbish and they know it. More RPM to have the same noise just louder? OK. No Mgu-H but bigger K doesnt make up the lost Energy...so they will have to burn a lot More fuel to get Power. Manual deployment Yo, how exiting^^. Also More RPM mandatory or what , because it will waste... Or will they have a stupid boostbpressure rule... Whatever.... Plug andplay installation sure... Spec engine in the making thanks to Red Bull cry babies. BOSS GP 2021... Watch this space. RIP F1.

[gdogg371]

I'd rather have retained a spec MGU-H if cost is the main driver and extend the K to also include the front brakes...rather than retreat from the technology, go all in. If these engines are currently pushing 960-980bhp in qualifying trim, more K, more revs and more fuel should have had them up well over 1000bhp. I dont think that is excessive in cars weighing over 700kg. That would have kept everyone apart from the V10 die hards happy surely?

[Jolle]

By the way, for all hopefuls, anything where you put "unlimited" in front of it, it will be unlimited expensive and widen the gap between the competitors.

for the current PU spec, its the size of and energy flow from and to the H-unit and the combustion chamber.

[AMG.Tzan]

Removing the MGU-h will lose them around 100hp if i am correct since KERS used to provide around 80hp in the past! Will they be able to surpass 1000hp with this or even keep up with today's engines?? That also means they'll need more fuel making the cars even heavier at the start! I don't know...i am not impressed! I love technology and today's engines are on top of that!! Standarizing things will make this again an aero formula and will will much less chances of increasing horsepower through the years...like we have seen since 2014! Anyway this is just a blueprint of the new engines...i hope they are more powerful and lighter than today's engines! And pleaseeee...just keep development in it!!

[AMG.Tzan]

Removing the MGU-h will lose them around 100hp if i am correct since KERS used to provide around 80hp in the past! Will they be able to surpass 1000hp with this or even keep up with today's engines?? That also means they'll need more fuel making the cars even heavier at the start! I don't know...i am not impressed! I love technology and today's engines are on top of that!! Standarizing things will make this again an aero formula and will give much less chances of increasing horsepower through the years...like we have seen since 2014! Anyway this is just a blueprint of the new engines...i hope they are more powerful and lighter than today's engines! And pleaseeee...just keep development in it!!

[Pingguest]

Why will the energy storage become standardized?

[tmoneyr007]

Doesn't "storing energy for a few laps" mean an excessively large ES?

Weight is the enemy guys, come on.

[tmoneyr007]

Personally, I'd like to see No MGU-K or MGU-H, no ES. Reduce the weight and cooling. Let Formula E drive the electric technology. Use a supercharger or turbo charger.

If you are proposing "push to pass" why get rid of the DRS? Why not just make it available for the driver to use whenever/wherever they want. Use the same methodology for it, +2 seconds a lap or build up for a maximum of 6 seconds. Moveable aero is cheap, effective and also shows off technology. Let the designers have freedom to make the front wing "moveable", the cooling intakes "moveable". Show off the aero functions off of F1, reducing drag, making cars more downforce, drag, efficient.

[Jolle]

ES is one of the perfect places where you can innovate as a team, without hurting the small teams too much. In the midfield it isn't that much of an impact to drive with a 25KG ES instead of an 20KG, 10 times as expensive ES. This could be a great cost saving and investment in innovation at the same time.
What would also help is to lift the ES and maybe even the CE out of the PU package. This way teams can go for a standard, comes with the PU or attract new partners like Samsung, Excite, Bosch or even Duracell.

[roon]

Also, I'm extremely hopefull FIA succedes in abolishing the MGU-H. While it's true the thing itself is a technological masterpiece, it's also true it's the primary reason current hybrids are such a money pit.

F1 is a money pit. Motorsport is a money pit. Gambling is a money pit. Sport is a money pit. F1 is the biggest motor racing corporations (read: the teams) in the world, in competition with each other. Why quibble over which pit the money disappears into; the shape of the pit, the depth of the pit...

[NL_Fer]

Single Turbo, no MGU-H as an antilag system and even more air needed to compensate for the lost exhaust heat recovery. That will be interesting for drivability.

With the current 120kW MGU-K an average circuitlap will only recover 1-1,5MJ, hardly worth the weight penalty, Again interesting for drivability.

[henry]

The wording is “increased speed range” not “increased speed”.

This would suggest fewer gears, maybe 5.

I have long thought this would be a good solution to the noise debate.

[roon]

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-and-formul ... egulations

Lots of prescriptions. "Internal design" restrictions, read: combustion chamber development. Goodbye TJI & other innovations? I suppose the money not spent there will find its way to aero, suspension, driver prep, organization. Also, first engine ruleset with aesthetic/subjective prerogative? "...improve the sound."

Best suggestion in this thread was all the back on page 1.

Fuel flow 70 kg/hr.

[Jolle]

Also, I'm extremely hopefull FIA succedes in abolishing the MGU-H. While it's true the thing itself is a technological masterpiece, it's also true it's the primary reason current hybrids are such a money pit.

F1 is a money pit. Motorsport is a money pit. Gambling is a money pit. Sport is a money pit. F1 is the biggest motor racing corporations (read: the teams) in the world, in competition with each other. Why quibble over which pit the money disappears into; the shape of the pit, the depth of the pit...

Acually, the hybrid systems aren't a money pit. Bare with me:

For the works teams F1 is marketing. They have budgets that go into the billions and competing (at the front) in F1 pays back. The use of innovating tech, that could be used in their products (like the combustion chamber tech, ES, H and K unit tech, the software) saves development costs.
The works teams are going to spend 400mln+ whatever the rules are, so make it count. A high revving V10 would be a bad investment and would be a waste.

It also looks like the works teams are taking care more or less of the midfield. It looks like that PU's are traded with talent development places, which isn't a bad thing.

Yes, F1 is very expensive but on the other hand, the grid at the moment is pretty stable. The only real victims the past few years were the "2010" teams and that is part to blame to opportunistic management. At the moment there doesn't appear to be a problem.

[3jawchuck]

It sounds like they're wanting to go towards an aero formula. Surely that will make it harder for smaller teams to compete? Doesn't the FIA want a more competitive field?