Paradise Papers claim Hamilton avoided paying £3.27 million in tax on his jet

[Jolle]

I think this is highly unlikely, as most of those who are leaning this way are young, and haven't really shown themselves to have the stomach for that kind of violence. Not to mention The percentage of the middle and upper class that are armed is high enough to shock most Europeans.

I was at a social gather a few weeks back that was comprised of middle class couples, and almost half of the men had concealed firearms on them.

It does.... frightening...

[Sieper]

Well, I am sure intelligent and motivated people can still make a very decent living, but we all aren't that intelligent (nor motivated). I have always been at the very top of my class, it's just luck If you are "intelligent". Most of us aren't, I believe it is unfair you are then out of the game.

Also back in the sixties most people were middleclass, now most people are lower class or upper middle class. We have somehow left the middleground and we are all playing for that.

Also the don't hate the player hate the game comment is getting a bit old. It is not a game, it is a matter of live and death to pay taxes fairly. But we should push on getting the game rules updated/enforced that is oh so very true. In stead we vote trump in office.

[Phil]

Except it's not how our tax system works.

You evidently didnt get the moral of the story.


Hint: if the tax system worked differently in a more “fair” manner, you’d possibly be forcing those to move elsewhere and “not show up”. They may be paying less (relatively), but at the same time they are still paying more than everyone else, plus the investments they make, the companies they build creates work for many people outthere.

Gaz should be rewarded with upvotes for that post.

[Maritimer]

I'd do the same and so would 99/100 people on this forum. Nobody likes to give their earnings away, no matter how much "extra" they may have.

[adrianjordan]

I claim tax relief on everything I can, even laundering my uniform for work.

I would absolutely do exactly what Lewis and others have done if it meant that it saved me some money.

I don't get people also arguing (on social media) that the Queen should understand her taxes etc but excusing sports stars...why should we expect someone in their 80's to understand our tax system more than a sports person in their 20's or 30's? I have no problem believing that the Queen has a tax adviser just as Lewis will and that she trusts that the advice given as being above board etc. In fact I doubt she ever has any involvement in her finances at all, but employs staff to look after them and is, herself far removed from them.

[Vasconia]

I am angry both with those big companies and those personalities. There are millions and millions of dollars/euros in taxes which should be destinated to improve our structures, economy, social healthcare,etc. They must pay.

Its easy to say how proud of being...(insert nationality) they are but they hide their money in those places. Hypocrites.

Your anger is misdirected. You shouldn't be getting angry at the companies or the people - they're following all the rules.

Instead, you should be getting angry at your MP, and demanding that the rules are changed so that these people and companies actually do have to pay a reasonable amount.

Err guys, I can be angry with both. And believe me, I am very,very angry with my PM. Sadly my only vote cant´change too much.

[Vasconia]

I am angry both with those big companies and those personalities. There are millions and millions of dollars/euros in taxes which should be destinated to improve our structures, economy, social healthcare,etc. They must pay.

Its easy to say how proud of being...(insert nationality) they are but they hide their money in those places. Hypocrites.

There are a million things you should be more angry about. Don't hate the player, hate the game. E.g. the problem isn't that people/companies/corporations do what the law legally allows them to (= optimise their tax), the problem is with the government that allows this to happen. They are doing what you should be doing too: optimise your tax in the (little) ways you can.

Perhaps you should be more upset about your government and the politics involved of overspending. Simply directing your anger at companies and "those personalities" is a very shallow, simplistic and narrow way of looking at it - and in the wrong place too.

Are you offended because I show my annoyance with those companies and personalities?.

Plus, the wrong place? this post has been created and its related to this subjet, can´t I express my opinion?

I do hate the game, I do hate how the PM and the government play on this, but come one, can´t I criticize what those companies do? it amazes me how sympathetic some people are with those companies and personalities.

In my area(Basque country) things are being done at a reasonable rate, not very good but better than in other places. But your competences are limited and its a waste of time if the Spanish goverment(hey Montoro I am looking at you) enforces a law which in practice was an amnesty for those who tried not to pay the taxes. Even the industry minister had to resign because his name appeared on several "doubtful" accounts in Panama.

The problem here is the globalization of the capitals. There is litte control of where the money is, billions of dollars are hidden in veiled accounts. The amount is so big that it can be used to destablize a country´s economy(or several countries). The next big crisis will be purely financial and it seems that many goverments(and citicizens) don´t care about it.

[Just_a_fan]

I don't get people also arguing (on social media) that the Queen should understand her taxes

Technically she doesn't have to pay tax anyway. She agreed to voluntarily pay tax.

[Ennis]

I claim tax relief on everything I can, even laundering my uniform for work.

I would absolutely do exactly what Lewis and others have done if it meant that it saved me some money.

I don't get people also arguing (on social media) that the Queen should understand her taxes etc but excusing sports stars...why should we expect someone in their 80's to understand our tax system more than a sports person in their 20's or 30's? I have no problem believing that the Queen has a tax adviser just as Lewis will and that she trusts that the advice given as being above board etc. In fact I doubt she ever has any involvement in her finances at all, but employs staff to look after them and is, herself far removed from them.

I believe the Queen, as head of state, has a duty to ensure anything with her name even close to it passes every moral test going. Her people should be instructed that this isn't just about Return On Investment, it also can't go to anything that could be construed as avoidance. Although could her estate then invest in Apple, for example? There's a lot of fine lines to navigate there.

[astracrazy]

I hate all this. 99% of us would do this too if we could.

Every self employed person avoids tax by putting everything they can down to lower there tax bill, even if its irrelevant to there business. Accountants even make up stuff because the rules allow it. No one bats an eyelid.
There are people who sit here in the UK refusing to work and live off benefits (thats not including people who can't work etc etc of course). They don't pay tax and generally no one bats an eyelid.

I bet he still pays more tax per year to this county (UK) than all of us combined.

[adrianjordan]

I claim tax relief on everything I can, even laundering my uniform for work.

I would absolutely do exactly what Lewis and others have done if it meant that it saved me some money.

I don't get people also arguing (on social media) that the Queen should understand her taxes etc but excusing sports stars...why should we expect someone in their 80's to understand our tax system more than a sports person in their 20's or 30's? I have no problem believing that the Queen has a tax adviser just as Lewis will and that she trusts that the advice given as being above board etc. In fact I doubt she ever has any involvement in her finances at all, but employs staff to look after them and is, herself far removed from them.

I believe the Queen, as head of state, has a duty to ensure anything with her name even close to it passes every moral test going. Her people should be instructed that this isn't just about Return On Investment, it also can't go to anything that could be construed as avoidance. Although could her estate then invest in Apple, for example? There's a lot of fine lines to navigate there.

But she's 91 now. Do you really think she understands the tax rules, or do you think she trusts what her advisers tell her?

At least she hasn't been caught lobbying for a company she invests in like a certain other Royal...

[Ennis]

I claim tax relief on everything I can, even laundering my uniform for work.

I would absolutely do exactly what Lewis and others have done if it meant that it saved me some money.

I don't get people also arguing (on social media) that the Queen should understand her taxes etc but excusing sports stars...why should we expect someone in their 80's to understand our tax system more than a sports person in their 20's or 30's? I have no problem believing that the Queen has a tax adviser just as Lewis will and that she trusts that the advice given as being above board etc. In fact I doubt she ever has any involvement in her finances at all, but employs staff to look after them and is, herself far removed from them.

I believe the Queen, as head of state, has a duty to ensure anything with her name even close to it passes every moral test going. Her people should be instructed that this isn't just about Return On Investment, it also can't go to anything that could be construed as avoidance. Although could her estate then invest in Apple, for example? There's a lot of fine lines to navigate there.

But she's 91 now. Do you really think she understands the tax rules, or do you think she trusts what her advisers tell her?

At least she hasn't been caught lobbying for a company she invests in like a certain other Royal...

I agree that both lobbying & investing is a much bigger issue.

If she has instructed her advisors to operate in a certain way, and they haven't done it, then that's on them. If she has given them free rein to get her a return on investment, that's on her. I do believe she should be held to a different standard than others.

[Phil]

I believe the Queen, as head of state, has a duty to ensure anything with her name even close to it passes every moral test going.

Moral? As in moral obligation? Paying tax is not a charity. It has nothing to do with moral. Its a rather black and white state if affairs. Optimizing is up to every tax payer. Not doing it doesnt make you morally “better”, it just means you’re an idiot. If you want to play the moral card, go out and donate or something.

[Ennis]

I believe the Queen, as head of state, has a duty to ensure anything with her name even close to it passes every moral test going.

Moral? As in moral obligation? Paying tax is not a charity. It has nothing to do with moral. Its a rather black and white state if affairs. Optimizing is up to every tax payer. Not doing it doesnt make you morally “better”, it just means you’re an idiot. If you want to play the moral card, go out and donate or something.

It is not in any way black and white. And your opinion really comes down to individual morals (as does mine), so neither of us is in a position to tell the other whether it makes you morally better or not.

If you're Lewis Hamilton, go for it. If you're the unelected Head of State for the UK (or anyone else who has influence over the rules), a country not wanting to be perceived as corrupt in any way, perhaps you should consider yourself a little more obligated than the normal people.

[Moose]

The companies they own have to pay business taxes.

Yes - which are far lower than income taxes. That's my point

They have to pay the salaries of the employees of the company (some of that ends up as taxes)

You mean... they bought something with their money? In what way is this "shelling out taxes"?

In the US. they have to contribute towards the employees Social Security and Medicare

No, their company does - and again - they bought something with this money, this isn't just paying tax on income.

In the US. we have almost incomprehensible laws about how and who they have to offer subsidized healthcare to.

Right - it would be a lot better if that were simply "you have to buy insurance for all your employees no matter what".

not to long ago I read a paper that theorized one of the underlying reasons for this was that technology allowed intelligent and/or highly motivated people to more efficiently make money. It also did away with the jobs held by those of lower intelligence or motivation.

There's always a luddite out there claiming that it's technology's fault. No - it's not technologies fault, it's simply that being rich increases your ability to gather more money.