2017-2020 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

[godlameroso]

If they want to improve racing and overtaking, just leave the cars to develop, as they gain more downforce, they'll also gain more drag and the slip stream effect becomes stronger.

[roon]

Slipstreaming is useful in a straight line via drag reduction and downforce decrease; DRS further enhances this. However, close following in corners is the problem many wish to solve; DRS does not address this, nor does adding DF to the current configuration.

Formula E Season 2019 introduces a large diffuser and a marginal implementation of the FIA centerline downwash concept. We'll see how this affects tailgating through corners. Formula E was never big on downforce; 2019 would appear to be an increase but I have no downforce figures for that chassis. 2014 specs were claimed as:

Maximum downforce: Approx. 1,200 pounds
Maximum cornering G: 1.75
Source: http://autoweek.com/article/racing/form ... z57VBn2JBj

[godlameroso]

I would think that following cars are mostly affected in medium speed corners. And that for high speed corners 260kph+ the loss of drag negates any lost downforce from following, to a point. Not to mention at these speeds most cars are making excessive downforce and could shed some. For example 130r in Suzuka, and last year we saw cars following through most high speed corners in Silverstone.

I bet if you look at the calendar and just look at the type of turns, the tracks that are notoriously hard to overtake the vast majority of the corners are medium speed, or they do something silly like put in a chicane at the end of the straight. If you want over taking sector 3 in Austin is the right approach, the corner leading on to the main straight has multiple lines, a nice decent straight, into a single low speed turn, followed by slow S section giving the leading car a chance to defend.

Look at tracks like Hungary, 80% of the corners are medium speed, it's impossible to follow, Australia, the same, mostly medium speed chicanes, and the best place to pass, not surprisingly is after the 2nd DRS zone. Suzuka, very difficult to pass, almost impossible except into turn 1 or through the back straight. Silverstone hard to follow but cars can still race for some reason. China had good racing as well, lots of high speed corners as well. Sochi, impossible to pass because it's all medium speed corners, but the cars can follow in that fast left hander.

[Brenton]

I would think that following cars are mostly affected in medium speed corners. And that for high speed corners 260kph+ the loss of drag negates any lost downforce from following, to a point. Not to mention at these speeds most cars are making excessive downforce and could shed some. For example 130r in Suzuka, and last year we saw cars following through most high speed corners in Silverstone.

Lower drag is virtually no benefit for a high speed corner unless it's taken flat out, because the car needs to be slowed enough to take the corner regardless of whether it's due to drag or lifting. The reduced drag will help when back on full throttle though.

Downforce increases exponentially with speed, so the dirty air penalty similarly gets worse with speed.

Of course 130r doesn't have a dirty air penalty... It's taken flat out so it's effectively a continuation of a straightaway in technical terms.

There just aren't many high speed corners in F1 anymore that aren't flat out. The improved grip with speed due to the incredible downforce these cars have means that there's only a narrow window of corner types (radius+ other details) that fit the "high speed but not flat out" criteria.

[godlameroso]

I would think that following cars are mostly affected in medium speed corners. And that for high speed corners 260kph+ the loss of drag negates any lost downforce from following, to a point. Not to mention at these speeds most cars are making excessive downforce and could shed some. For example 130r in Suzuka, and last year we saw cars following through most high speed corners in Silverstone.

Lower drag is virtually no benefit for a high speed corner unless it's taken flat out, because the car needs to be slowed enough to take the corner regardless of whether it's due to drag or lifting. The reduced drag will help when back on full throttle though.

Downforce increases exponentially with speed, so the dirty air penalty similarly gets worse with speed.

Of course 130r doesn't have a dirty air penalty... It's taken flat out so it's effectively a continuation of a straightaway in technical terms.

There just aren't many high speed corners in F1 anymore that aren't flat out. The improved grip with speed due to the incredible downforce these cars have means that there's only a narrow window of corner types (radius+ other details) that fit the "high speed but not flat out" criteria.

Right! and as downforce increases there will be more easy flat corners and more places to make up time with slip stream. Vettel stayed with Hamilton all race because of the slip stream in Spa. At the same time all the mid speed corners in sector 2 kept him at bay. Its why Hamilton couldn't pass Raikkonen in Brazil, too many mid speed corners. Or a chicane at the end of the straight.

[roon]

Turbulence is also a factor, and it may be that alone which the complaints about wake effects have arisen, and not strictly drag or DF loss, as the previous few posts have suggested. Turbulence probably transmits through the car as vibration and random multidirectional acceleration. I think of time spent on a motorcycle, of being able to feel the shape of the air through different conditions. You know when you're going through air that's full of twists and contortions. It's not nearly as comfortable.

[Juzh]

Silverstone hard to follow but cars can still race for some reason.

That one's mainly because the exit onto back straight is already at 200+ and the leading car has less net gain by being on the throttle 0.5s earlier. The overtake can then continue all the way into the next lap if the car ahead had to defend on the back straight.

If you're 0.5s earlier on the throttle coming out of a slow corner (say 100-150 kph) you gain so much ground with the acceleartion of an F1 car you're effectively out of slipstream danger in those few tenths. Last turn in Sochi a very good example. 1.2 km long flat out section but next to no overtaking.

[Vyssion]

Some of the new Halo designs with flaps on them:

[WaikeCU]

Let's say IF the Halo turns out to be a success and it remains on the car for the future...

I wonder with the height of that Halo, can the rollbar be lowered? Let the teams find other ways to cool the engine without the duct in the rollbar?

[Vanja #66]

Should we start with 2021 aero package regulations thread? Brawn's team is on it for more than 6 months already.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/braw ... 20664/?s=1

One of the things we’ve started, and we’re now six to nine months into it, is a programme to understand how we can enable these cars to race each other more effectively.

We need to keep the aerodynamic performance at a high level, but we need to do it in a way that’s more benign and more friendly to the cars around it.

There’s almost a force field that exists at the moment, a bubble around each car. And the car attacking it can’t get near it, because as soon as it gets within 1.5-2.0s of the car in front, it loses so much performance. It can’t get near.

So we started the programme, and I’m really excited by what I’m seeing.

[jjn9128]

Should we start with 2021 aero package regulations thread? Brawn's team is on it for more than 6 months already.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/braw ... 20664/?s=1

One of the things we’ve started, and we’re now six to nine months into it, is a programme to understand how we can enable these cars to race each other more effectively.

We need to keep the aerodynamic performance at a high level, but we need to do it in a way that’s more benign and more friendly to the cars around it.

There’s almost a force field that exists at the moment, a bubble around each car. And the car attacking it can’t get near it, because as soon as it gets within 1.5-2.0s of the car in front, it loses so much performance. It can’t get near.

So we started the programme, and I’m really excited by what I’m seeing.

I'd say not until they announce their plans, looks like ahead of Bahrain they'll tell teams.

Gosh that article, and most of the free content on motorsport now, is an exercise in how to fill 1000 words from someone saying virtually nothing.

[PhillipM]

I'd make all front wing flaps terminate to an inner flat endplate, then re-regulate the bargeboard area, that should reduce their effects downstream on the rest of the car and force designs to use aero that's much less sensitive to sealing the floor, etc.

[f1316]

I’m not sure I buy this idea about simplifying - and I believe part of the suggestion was also downsizing - the front wing in order to aid overtaking. To me that sounds a lot like what we had pre 2009 which is what led to all the messing about with the rules to begin with (yes, they were also raised FWs, which I never understood, so perhaps that also exacerbated the problem).

It seems to me that you have plenty of tracks where overtaking is perfectly easy enough - look at how the lead two cars, with supposedly the smallest delta, could pass for the win in Spain (yes, different tyres, but strategy is part of it) Malaysia and Austin, not to mention all the overtaking we saw in places like Brazil (again, coming from the back is part of the equation - you’re never going to have any overtaking unless a faster car is behind a slower car - it’s just impossible).

So it seems to me the issue is less about the cars and more about the circuits; my view is that some football matches are 0-0, some boxing matches go to points decisions with hardly a punch thrown, some basketball games are a runaway victory by the 3rd quarter - I.e. not all races are going to be a ‘superbowl’ (although, that said, plenty if superbowls suck too). It’s inherent to all those sports and it’s inherent to F1 that some races are going to be dull and/or have other areas of interest aside from overtaking (e.g. seeing the cars brush the barriers at Monaco).

But if you do insist on making overtaking easier everywhere it’s track-specific - so the effort should go into fixing the tracks you want to keep and replacing others with better overtaking tracks (let’s say Russia could be replaced by,for the sake of argument, Indy - imagine DRS kicking in at the end of the banking).

[jjn9128]

I’m not sure I buy this idea about simplifying - and I believe part of the suggestion was also downsizing - the front wing in order to aid overtaking. To me that sounds a lot like what we had pre 2009 which is what led to all the messing about with the rules to begin with (yes, they were also raised FWs, which I never understood, so perhaps that also exacerbated the problem).

It seems to me that you have plenty of tracks where overtaking is perfectly easy enough - look at how the lead two cars, with supposedly the smallest delta, could pass for the win in Spain (yes, different tyres, but strategy is part of it) Malaysia and Austin, not to mention all the overtaking we saw in places like Brazil (again, coming from the back is part of the equation - you’re never going to have any overtaking unless a faster car is behind a slower car - it’s just impossible).

So it seems to me the issue is less about the cars and more about the circuits; my view is that some football matches are 0-0, some boxing matches go to points decisions with hardly a punch thrown, some basketball games are a runaway victory by the 3rd quarter - I.e. not all races are going to be a ‘superbowl’ (although, that said, plenty if superbowls suck too). It’s inherent to all those sports and it’s inherent to F1 that some races are going to be dull and/or have other areas of interest aside from overtaking (e.g. seeing the cars brush the barriers at Monaco).

But if you do insist on making overtaking easier everywhere it’s track-specific - so the effort should go into fixing the tracks you want to keep and replacing others with better overtaking tracks (let’s say Russia could be replaced by,for the sake of argument, Indy - imagine DRS kicking in at the end of the banking).

I don't know what they're suggesting - as they've not told anyone - but the rumour I heard was they wanted to remove the FWUF (front wing upper flap - the cascade of flaps near the endplate) and turning vanes, but not necessarily reducing the number of elements on the wing. The implication seems to be when in the wake the complex flows they create to divert the front tyre wakes is disturbed, and when that loses efficacy the floor of the car suffers. I don't think they want to reduce the span to inside the wheels, a wider front wing is better aerodynamically for the front wheels and front end of the car.

Agree that track design plays a part. There are some circuits where overtaking is easier - sometimes defying logic - Brazil is a good example, the curved 'straight' seems to be one of the things which helps into T1/2. The issue at Albert park is despite the tight twisty look of the track, the average speed is surprisingly high, because there are no really big braking zones, if the corner leading on to the S/F straight was a little more open and T1 was tighter maybe there would be more overtaking.

Again agree the 'boring' races make the exciting ones more special, but there's an issue when a car that's 2 seconds slower in qualifying can hold off the top teams for a long period of the race. There are other issues than just aerodynamics though.

N.B. If they went back to Indy it'd be the road course Indycar uses ahead of the 500, i.e. missing the banking.

[godlameroso]

Silverstone hard to follow but cars can still race for some reason.

That one's mainly because the exit onto back straight is already at 200+ and the leading car has less net gain by being on the throttle 0.5s earlier. The overtake can then continue all the way into the next lap if the car ahead had to defend on the back straight.

If you're 0.5s earlier on the throttle coming out of a slow corner (say 100-150 kph) you gain so much ground with the acceleartion of an F1 car you're effectively out of slipstream danger in those few tenths. Last turn in Sochi a very good example. 1.2 km long flat out section but next to no overtaking.

So would it be better if the last turn in Sochi was slower or faster? This is a very good point and deserves consideration, what about at the end of the straight, would making that corner faster or slower promote overtaking? Is the set up for the turn after the long left better? A small change at all of these places can make a huge difference. Just small changes to the camber on that turn leading to the straight can make a huge difference. Like a favorable camber offline, with no camber change through the ideal line, while making the corner slightly faster and wider.

This can be easily done as maybe 2-3 cm of camber in a strategic location will change the corner speed on a particular line. You learn this tearing up back roads .



Street roads have extreme examples of different cambers elevations, and other road features that make finding the right lines in these types of roads really a superior skill that translates to all forms of competitive driving.