Lewis Hamilton has managed to win at Monte Carlo after having won the race in GP2 only 2 year ago. Despite a mistake, he was able to profit from an excellent car and other's mistakes to comfortably lead the race as of the half way mark. Kubica is second while Felipe Massa ends in third place.
Scotracer wrote:My guess is that Massa is very light, Kimi has a one or two laps more and Hamilton is significantly heavier than the Ferraris. I also suspect that Kubica has similar fuel loads to Kimi but he was compromised on his final run so couldn't make full use of it.
It's a guessing game. But I think Massa is slightly heavier than Kimi. Hamilton may have a lap or two more (although I wouldn’t count on it) I agree that RK, LH are on similar strategies. The race will be decided on tire selection, tire wear, and whoever is lucky enough to have their fuel strategy play into changing track conditions! If anyone of the top 10 is heavy I would say Fred. It's not his style, and there are no outward indicators, but he is the only one who has nothing to lose with the gamble!
Can anybody please point me to a high resolution photo, of all sides if possible, of Kimi's Monaco special helmet for this race? [-o< He has by far the best helmet designs of any driver. I would be greatly appreciative.
Ciro Pabón wrote:I assume that the amount of fuel corresponds roughly with the order of the list, or the difference in time between both qualies.
That is, Trulli has a lot of fuel, Räikkönnen has the least.
Am I wrong about the idea that they fill the cars in the 3rd qualy?
I have too much work to make some statistics about pit laps and qualy differences. It would be interesting to deduce any correlation, if it exists at all.
Has anyone thought about this? And if what I'm saying is true, why not? It only dawned on me when I saw a post by grunf77 at Grand Prix.
This method of calculation is generally right and I've read more than one comment by race engineers saying they use it. But it obviously ignores other factors, such as drivers errors and for example the rumor that Ferrari isn't running on fumes in Q2 because the heavier fuel load helps them to warm up the tires.
Ray wrote:Can anybody please point me to a high resolution photo, of all sides if possible, of Kimi's Monaco special helmet for this race? [-o< He has by far the best helmet designs of any driver. I would be greatly appreciative.
Ciro Pabón wrote:Welcome, JamesS, sorry I did not see your previous posts.
Just in case, what I think is that you can estimate the amount of fuel on board looking at the difference in lap times between the 2nd qualy, that I presume is ran with empty tanks, and the 3rd qualy, that I'm sure has to be ran with race fuel. I repost the numbers, with the proper headings.
Grid Name Team 3rd Q 2nd Q Diff.
8 Trulli Toyota 01:17.2 01:15.6 1.605
9 Webber RedBull 01:17.3 01:15.8 1.548
6 Rosberg Will. 01:16.5 01:15.3 1.261
7 Alonso Renault 01:16.9 01:15.8 1.025
4 Koval. McLaren 01:16.2 01:15.4 0.776
5 Kubica BMW 01:16.2 01:15.5 0.688
1 Massa Ferrari 01:15.8 01:15.1 0.677
3 Hamilt. McLaren 01:15.8 01:15.3 0.517
2 Räikk. Ferrari 01:15.8 01:15.4 0.411
I assume that the amount of fuel corresponds roughly with the order of the list, or the difference in time between both qualies.
That is, Trulli has a lot of fuel, Räikkönnen has the least.
Am I wrong about the idea that they fill the cars in the 3rd qualy?
I have too much work to make some statistics about pit laps and qualy differences. It would be interesting to deduce any correlation, if it exists at all.
Has anyone thought about this? And if what I'm saying is true, why not? It only dawned on me when I saw a post by grunf77 at Grand Prix.
Im sure you have read [and I] that teams do this to estimate their competitors pitstop. But do you really think its that easy? If I was team manager of either the top 2 competitive teams, I'd order my drivers to play a game in Q1/Q2 and not give 100%.
I recall a few times in '06, Schumacher would do that, and his Q3 time (even though they had fuel burn) was just as fast as his Q2... and he wasn't light (comparative).
ie The evidence you provide can only be considered with a grain of salt.
I don't know, bizadfar. As many of you around here, I don't believe in what I see, much less in what I hear.
There is logic to it, but I would be convinced only by a comparisson between the difference in qualies and first pit stop laps, to try to find a pattern.
FLC and you point out some things you have to take in account before reaching any conclusion. I could add that most drivers try their "good" tyres (whatever the compound) in the last qualy.
It's an easy exercise to do, but where I live is Saturday, 2:30 am, and I'm working my butt off. Perhaps next week I'll do the comparison.
I tried today but it was time consuming to find the pit stop laps (I could think only about VisionF1 and it has data only for Turkey).
I've watched the Porsche SuperCup race, and it was raining nicely. It wasn't a torrential downpour, but the track was wet everywhere and some "charcos" (puddles?) could be seen in the entry to Ste. Devote, where Jeroem Bleekemolen was badly struggling.
AccuWeather forecasts rain until 8pm. After seeing the clouds there and remembering that steep geography won't help the "migration of clouds", I believe it.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr
Ciro Pabón wrote:Welcome, JamesS, sorry I did not see your previous posts.
Just in case, what I think is that you can estimate the amount of fuel on board looking at the difference in lap times between the 2nd qualy, that I presume is ran with empty tanks, and the 3rd qualy, that I'm sure has to be ran with race fuel. I repost the numbers, with the proper headings.
Grid Name Team 3rd Q 2nd Q Diff.
8 Trulli Toyota 01:17.2 01:15.6 1.605
9 Webber RedBull 01:17.3 01:15.8 1.548
6 Rosberg Will. 01:16.5 01:15.3 1.261
7 Alonso Renault 01:16.9 01:15.8 1.025
4 Koval. McLaren 01:16.2 01:15.4 0.776
5 Kubica BMW 01:16.2 01:15.5 0.688
1 Massa Ferrari 01:15.8 01:15.1 0.677
3 Hamilt. McLaren 01:15.8 01:15.3 0.517
2 Räikk. Ferrari 01:15.8 01:15.4 0.411
I assume that the amount of fuel corresponds roughly with the order of the list, or the difference in time between both qualies.
That is, Trulli has a lot of fuel, Räikkönnen has the least.
Am I wrong about the idea that they fill the cars in the 3rd qualy?
I have too much work to make some statistics about pit laps and qualy differences. It would be interesting to deduce any correlation, if it exists at all.
Has anyone thought about this? And if what I'm saying is true, why not? It only dawned on me when I saw a post by grunf77 at Grand Prix.
Im sure you have read [and I] that teams do this to estimate their competitors pitstop. But do you really think its that easy? If I was team manager of either the top 2 competitive teams, I'd order my drivers to play a game in Q1/Q2 and not give 100%.
I recall a few times in '06, Schumacher would do that, and his Q3 time (even though they had fuel burn) was just as fast as his Q2... and he wasn't light (comparative).
ie The evidence you provide can only be considered with a grain of salt.
The other thing to consider is that Hamilton made a mistake on his first Q2 run and had to do a second lap on the same option tyres. He would definitely have had at least a slightly faster time had he managed an error free Q2 run with tyres at their best.
This also indicates that he had enough fuel on board to do so, so was not completely on fumes - having at least one extra laps worth of fuel on board.
OK... All forecasts that I have checked predict rain for the entire day. Without traction control, I think Massa has the best chance of making it to the finish first... if he doesn't overcook it in the front. furthermore, I predict drivers such as Alonso and Fisi to benefit from the rain.
Watching online... it is GREAT to see the cars slipping out and squirming under acceleration - finally a sign to the viewer that the drivers are really trying HARD!
great stuff. evening if there's no overtaking I love monaco in the wet.
joseff wrote:My sympathy goes to Adrian Sutil. Hope he gets the BMW drive next year.
Sutil is rumoured to get a BMW drive?!
what a fantastic race! I thought they were going to run out of front wings, they were running into each other and the barriers so often. The rain mixed things up alot. C'mon Sutil in 4th and Vettel in 7th (before Kimi lost it and hit Sutil)
Great work from Sutil, Vettel (very much a ghost driver) and Kubica. I think they were the best runners in this race by a country mile.
Bring on the rain for all the races to come [-o<
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
What a GREAT race. I am really happy for Hamilton, but also really sad for Sutil. I am a McLaren fan through and through, but from lap 38, I was shouting for Sutil like mad. What an excellent drive from him. Also a good race their from Vettel, nice show and off to canada we go! (Sorta rhymes )
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