Wing Profile???

[wingman]

Can anyone tell me a good wing profile(s) to use for an F1 rear wing? I know there are many different ones, but I need to choose one in particular to analyse. I am going to do a single element wing first, then 2 or 3 elements.

I have been looking through a database at http://www.aae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html but they are all designed for aircraft.

I can't just make one up, I need the name of it.

Cheers,
wingman

[old timer]

Yes you can use an aircraft wing profile for race car down force. Check this months Racecar engineering aerobytes they are analyzing a NACA wing profile. Race Car Aerodynamics by Joseph Katz alsouses NACA and the new NASA wing shapes and analyzes both single element and multiple element wings. Wing profiles are usually named things like NACA 642 -415

[wingman]

Thanks for the reply.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the Racecar engineering aerobytes?

[sharkie17]

Yes you can use an aircraft wing profile for race car down force. Check this months Racecar engineering aerobytes they are analyzing a NACA wing profile. Race Car Aerodynamics by Joseph Katz alsouses NACA and the new NASA wing shapes and analyzes both single element and multiple element wings. Wing profiles are usually named things like NACA 642 -415

they are all named NACA because the predecessor of NASA (which is NACA, hehe) did all the aerodynamic research during the late 50s and early 60's. There are whole archives of all the research papers and data you can find on NACA archive for all the aerodynamic experiments.

[marcush.]

heck this:www.Racecar-engineering.com it´s the Mags website.

[CFDruss]

Not all airfoil profiles are named after the NACA, there are thousands of profiles from different research groups such as liebeck, Drela, wartmann, etc.
A very common section used in motorsport is the NACA 23012, but it really all depends on what you want to achieve.
the airfoils used in F1 today are based on no published wing data, and is completely the teams own designs. They have probably been developed by the teams using a reverse engineering approach, in that, they know what pressure distribution they want from the wing, they know the flow interaction from the vehicle and then set about the design that way.

You could indeed design your own sections if you learn a little about airfoil theory.

At the moment, I am currently in mid design for the f1tech members to view of a naca 23012 main element airfoil which has been modified to increase its camber using a 3rd order equation. Then a Liebeck LNV109a second and third element which again has been slightly cambered using a 3rd order equation. The span of the wings will also be of the 'W' form and the end plate are to have the mysterious slots in them.

Will post all results as soon as im done

Russ

[wingman]

Thanks for the replys.

I would love to know how to apply a third order equation to an aerofoil. It seems that was my only problem with the ones I could find - they didn't have enough camber.

If anyone could explain it for me, or tell me where to look for an explanation that would be much appreciated.

Cheers, wingman

[CFDruss]

Its kinda simple, try and figure it out, that way you learn it better for yourself, if you need help feel free to help.

Some pics are below of the Naca 23012 as standard, the camber line wanted, and the modified naca 23012.

[wingman]

champ... thanks

[CFDruss]

How you getting on with it mate, have you figured it out yet mate.

Just think of it as the airfoil is plotted with co-ordinates, so there for if you want to alter it camber you need to change the y cordinate but still keeping the profile of the airfoil. It can get slightly complex by adding different order equations and leading edge camber. the naca 23012 I have modified has a 3rd order EQ at the trailing edge and then a 2nd order eq at the leading edge. By giving the leadin edge camber too you help to promote a more desired pressure distribution on the low pressure side of the wing.

Just play around once you get the hang of it, you will pick so much up from just experimenting, and you will realise the stuff you learn relates to known Phenomena, and if it dosnt then you will learn where you went wrong.

Hope this helps mate
By the way, Ive had a few drinks if all this sounds all gobbldee gooch!!! then they stopped serving

Russ (CFDRuss)

[wingman]

Perhaps I'm not as bright as 4.5 years of Aero Engineering would suggest, but I couldn't quite get my head around it. I screwed around in Excel for a while, but to no avail.

Anyway, I've actually found a good NACA profile that I will use - NACA8509.



As far as I know this actual aerofoil is very rarely used for anything, but I think its an OK one to use for my prupose.

I might have another go when I add more elements.
Thanks for your help

[CFDruss]

add me to your msn if you use it and I will go though it with ya

Rascal1001@Hotmail.com

[kilcoo316]

Its kinda simple, try and figure it out, that way you learn it better for yourself, if you need help feel free to help.

Some pics are below of the Naca 23012 as standard, the camber line wanted, and the modified naca 23012.

Dunno if your still about Russ??

I understand that right, you've made an equation, then simply added the equivalent distance to pressure or suction surface from when the aero chord was at an angle of 0 AoA?


I'll experiment more when I get home.



[Oh, and to be pedantic, you've not actually modelled the camberline but no harm done at all - and very good thinking for tailoring the wing batman! =D> ]

[kilcoo316]

Oh, and could anyone tell me whether the breakdown of the F1-2000 (by Hughes was it?) contains the wing profiles or car surface geometries at all?