2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Fulcrum
Fulcrum
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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I'm just interested to see if Ferrari, finally, attempt to do something different on strategy; especially if they don't lead into the first corner.

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Phil
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Vasconia wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:09
Power wise they are in a better position and the tyre allocation favours the team.
How so? Monaco showed nicely how quickly the Hyper-Soft degrades, despite the slow speeds. If anything, I think the HS will prove to be a fantastic qualifying tire (e.g. deliver the fastest possible one-lap-pace), but not be a good race-tire. And contrary to Monaco, you can overtake in Canada, so not being able to run your pace on a compromised tire will make you vulnerable to overtakes.

I personally think Mercedes are better set-up for the race, if anything (strictly looking at tire allocation).
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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FrukostScones
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:38
Vasconia wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:09
Power wise they are in a better position and the tyre allocation favours the team.
How so? Monaco showed nicely how quickly the Hyper-Soft degrades, despite the slow speeds. If anything, I think the HS will prove to be a fantastic qualifying tire (e.g. deliver the fastest possible one-lap-pace), but not be a good race-tire. And contrary to Monaco, you can overtake in Canada, so not being able to run your pace on a compromised tire will make you vulnerable to overtakes.

I personally think Mercedes are better set-up for the race, if anything (strictly looking at tire allocation).
Dont know if you can compare Monaco and Gilles Villeneuve Track regarding the tyres, but I reckon RB (Ricciardo) didn't wreck his HS in Moncao. So we will wait and see how the HS run on this track...
Also drivers where praising HS tyre when it was introduced in Abu Dhuble Testing.
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... dhabi-test
I think it is too early to conclude.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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Phil
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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The RedBull has usually been the best car on the softest compound, so yes, I would think their car is the car to beat where tire wear is concerned. However, as you did say, Monaco and Canada are very different tracks. On the former, you can obviously get away with driving 5 seconds off the pace without being overtaken. This prolonged the HS tire life. This will not be possible in Canada as you will be eaten for breakfast easily.

All indications so far is that the HS is great qualifying tire, not more. It was designed for this purpose and Monaco demonstrated this nicely. And as for the test in Abu Dhabi - "praise" can mean many different things. Praising it for outright performance? Yes - undisputed. Praising for longevity? That I am not sure of. Monaco certainly didn't demonstrate that. I don't think the HS was ever conceived to be a very durable tire. It was designed for street tracks and a low temperature operating window - tracks that don't have many high downforce (energy) corners and therefore tire temperatures are on the lower side. In that sense, Monaco and Canada are not that dissimilar.

After Monaco, I think Mercedes will be quite pleased with their tire allocation. Obviously we all don't know how FP1-3 will pan out and what the simulation runs will show, but when the tire allocations were made, I assume the overall strategy for Mercedes was that they would probably try to use the HS for Q1 and Q3 and use US/SS for the race.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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As I said we will see.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

BwajSF
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 11:43
The RedBull has usually been the best car on the softest compound, so yes, I would think their car is the car to beat where tire wear is concerned. However, as you did say, Monaco and Canada are very different tracks. On the former, you can obviously get away with driving 5 seconds off the pace without being overtaken. This prolonged the HS tire life. This will not be possible in Canada as you will be eaten for breakfast easily.

All indications so far is that the HS is great qualifying tire, not more. It was designed for this purpose and Monaco demonstrated this nicely. And as for the test in Abu Dhabi - "praise" can mean many different things. Praising it for outright performance? Yes - undisputed. Praising for longevity? That I am not sure of. Monaco certainly didn't demonstrate that. I don't think the HS was ever conceived to be a very durable tire. It was designed for street tracks and a low temperature operating window - tracks that don't have many high downforce (energy) corners and therefore tire temperatures are on the lower side. In that sense, Monaco and Canada are not that dissimilar.

After Monaco, I think Mercedes will be quite pleased with their tire allocation. Obviously we all don't know how FP1-3 will pan out and what the simulation runs will show, but when the tire allocations were made, I assume the overall strategy for Mercedes was that they would probably try to use the HS for Q1 and Q3 and use US/SS for the race.
I seriously believe it is not fare to compare Monaco tyre Behaviour with any other tracks tyre behavior. Simple because.. Monaco has many slow corners that dont put much energy into the front tyres and traction zones which use rear tyres occationallly .. Since, the character of this circuit is slow it is tough to maintain the working temps on the tyres and hence cause graining...
But on the contrary Canada is fast .. with solid chicanes and one Hairpin which are still faster than most of the corners in monaco.. That makes the tyre usage and ability to maintain heat in them a totally different matter to Monaco. Hence, Hypersofts will be the best tyre giving almost 0.6s second a Lap gain at the most..
I would say Ferrari are well places with the allocation of tyres.. and since Canada has vital traction zones after each and every chicane and Hairpin Mercs will still be vulnerable to Rear tyre over heating issues,,,
Just my thought about it.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:38
Vasconia wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:09
Power wise they are in a better position and the tyre allocation favours the team.
How so? Monaco showed nicely how quickly the Hyper-Soft degrades, despite the slow speeds. If anything, I think the HS will prove to be a fantastic qualifying tire (e.g. deliver the fastest possible one-lap-pace), but not be a good race-tire. And contrary to Monaco, you can overtake in Canada, so not being able to run your pace on a compromised tire will make you vulnerable to overtakes.

I personally think Mercedes are better set-up for the race, if anything (strictly looking at tire allocation).
If I am not wrong Monaco´s problem was more related to graining, so I think that the problem won´t be the same in Canada, a totally different track. I think its too early to judge but I would be surprised if Ferrari has the same problems.

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Phil
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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I guess I am operating on the basic assumption that the softest tire has also the weakest durability. Last year, it was a 1-stop, bordering on 2-stop (down to strategy, really). Pirelli brought the US, SS and the S tire. This year, with the HS-US and SS, the tires are two stops softer, so in theory, we should be seeing a 2-stop race. I think this likelihood is further increased by the fact that Canada does allow overtaking, so you can easily gamble on more stops and running a faster pace because you are less likely to compromise your strategy by being stuck behind traffic.


Some random thoughts:

The teams start with 13 sets of tires. 6 are given back to Pirelli by the end of FP3 (2 for each session). This leaves them with 7 sets for QF and the race. Q3 runners additionally have to hand back the softest set from their Q3 run, leaving them with 6 for the race. The front runners usually get away using 4 sets for QF. 1 set for Q1, 1 set for Q2 (the starting tire) and two runs in Q3. This leaves 2 fresh sets remaining.

Assuming Mercedes intend to run Q2 on the US (they only have 5 sets of HS) and also assuming they will want two fresh sets of HS for their Q3 run, they need to save at least 1 US and 2 HS for Q2 and Q3. They may run Q1 on the HS too to get a feel for the tire for their later Q3 run, so I'm assuming they will allocate at least 3 HS from their 5 for QF/Race. That means they will get to test at least 2 sets each during one of the free practice sessions. If they want to leave their options open for the starting tire, they will need to save one more set of HS for QF.

Either way, any team will probably be stopping at maximum 2 times for the race (3 stints). Neglecting their used starting tire from Q2, it would be beneficial to keep 2 fresh sets for the other two stints. Mercedes have allocated a total of 5 US and 3 SS for their weekend. Asssuming they'll be starting on the US, I'm thinking they may try to save another fresh set of US and a fresh set of SS for the race. This leaves them with 3 sets USs for free-practice to find the best set-up and 2 on the SS.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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On a far less serious note, wasn't this kind of thread posted always on Sunday prior to the race?
This one, It's active since Wednesday I think.

Sevach
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Vasconia wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 12:46
Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:38
Vasconia wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:09
Power wise they are in a better position and the tyre allocation favours the team.
How so? Monaco showed nicely how quickly the Hyper-Soft degrades, despite the slow speeds. If anything, I think the HS will prove to be a fantastic qualifying tire (e.g. deliver the fastest possible one-lap-pace), but not be a good race-tire. And contrary to Monaco, you can overtake in Canada, so not being able to run your pace on a compromised tire will make you vulnerable to overtakes.

I personally think Mercedes are better set-up for the race, if anything (strictly looking at tire allocation).
If I am not wrong Monaco´s problem was more related to graining, so I think that the problem won´t be the same in Canada, a totally different track. I think its too early to judge but I would be surprised if Ferrari has the same problems.
Gasly did half the race on HS, Ricciardo sure could have gone a lot longer than he did but it was safer to respond to Vettel and Hamilton.

Still i wouldn't bet on many people using it willingly.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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I think Ferrari will be the quickest car in qualifying for sure. They have shown to have better straight line speed this year and their traction is superior than the Merc. Merc can hope to outlast them during the race because it has better tire deg. The redbulls will undoubtedly be the third best car in quali, but will be very competitive in the race because they too have very good tire deg, if not the best. I'll be surprised if a one stopper is the better strategy. I think the race is a normal 2 stopper with the compounds available. I have a feeling this is going to be a cracking race.

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SiLo
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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I really feel like Hamilton has a good 3 tenths in the bag at this track. Always gone really well here.
Felipe Baby!

vehicledynamics
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:38
Vasconia wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 10:09
Power wise they are in a better position and the tyre allocation favours the team.
How so? Monaco showed nicely how quickly the Hyper-Soft degrades, despite the slow speeds. If anything, I think the HS will prove to be a fantastic qualifying tire (e.g. deliver the fastest possible one-lap-pace), but not be a good race-tire. And contrary to Monaco, you can overtake in Canada, so not being able to run your pace on a compromised tire will make you vulnerable to overtakes.

I personally think Mercedes are better set-up for the race, if anything (strictly looking at tire allocation).
Totally agree. The only thing who saved top 6 drivers in Monaco who were suffering with the HS, was the unlikely opportunity to overtake. With the backstraight of Canada after the hairpin, we will see a different story.

Does it worth to qualify in Q3 with US just for starting the race with that compound? Or the delta time between HS and US will be too high in Q3?

It will be an interesting race, and personally i love this track layout.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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I hope it's not a boring race, yes you can pass here, but it's bloody hard, and no rain in sight means no wildcard. It's not even going to be particularly windy. The only thing that can spice up the race is going to be tires, because the track gets nice and toasty in the sun. 71 laps and all but the hardest tire will start giving up after 10 laps, lots of rear tire wear and not a lot of front tire wear.

To compensate teams will run lots of front toe to scrub those tires and get some heat into them. They'll have to manage the rears because this circuit is all about rear traction out of mid speed corners. Unfortunately every single straight except the hair pin ends in a chicane or chicane'ish corner.

I imagine Hamilton and Vettel will have a lovely fight at the front, especially if Vettel gets in front early on.
Saishū kōnā

TheGkbrk
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Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

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Maybe we will see some 3 stops.
edit: we didn't .lol.
Last edited by TheGkbrk on 17 Jun 2018, 09:43, edited 1 time in total.