2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

[sosic2121]

The entire point of having a safety car on track is because inherent unsafe conditions exist.

No. The safety car was on track for a specific situation at a specific corner where a tractor was working very close to the side of the track. That corner was some distance away from the pit entry area and so there was no "inherent unsafe condition" applicable at the point where Hamilton went across the grass.

Thank you very much for explaining this to us.

If only you explained this to stewards last year at Spa when they gave Kimi penalty for ignoring yellow flag given for car stopped on the track, when there was no car on the track....

[Just_a_fan]

We're what makes this sport.

People watching F1 on TV don't make the sport, sorry. Motor racing exists with or without people watching. Fans really are just a "nice to have" for any motor sport and then really only for the person selling them tickets or t-shirts.

[Sevach]

Laps before Seb's slide in to the gravel.

Vettel
45 1:19.251
46 1:20.700
47 1:19.382
48 1:19.133
49 1:20.281
50 1:23.376
51 1:29.270

Hamilton
45 1:17.251
46 1:19.386
47 1:16.957
48 1:17.792
49 1:18.899
50 1:21.122
51 1:29.258

Hamilton was eating in to Vettel's advantage. If Vettel was aware of that, it might have caused him to push too hard on the tyres he was on. The only one who knows is Seb and he isn't saying.

I honesty don't see the point of a team telling their driver to "push" under those conditions, what Ferrari should've been worrying is making the right pit call.
Obviously the track got that much weter (is that a word btw? Not my first language ) on lap 51/52 and Vettel was the one caught out.

[Andres125sx]

Vettel deliberately crashed into an opponents car last year and got a slap on the wrist.

10s stop&go is slap on the wrist?

Yes. Crashing intentionally with an opponent, under SC!!, is far from a common or aceptable mistake. It should deserve a race ban at least, but they´d have ruined the fight for the title so FIA agenda kicked in again and Vettel got away with a laughable penalty for the huge and childish mistake he did

[Just_a_fan]

much weter (is that a word btw? Not my first language )

Yes, "wetter" is a word. Your English is very good, don't worry.

[Just_a_fan]

Crashing intentionally with an opponent,

It got Schumacher excluded from the championship back in '97...

[i70q7m7ghw]

I still don't understand how Hamilton didn't get a penalty for making up his own track when he ignored his engineer about to pit. Seriously.

Isn't this what happens at nearly half the tracks on the calendar when drivers enter the pit entry and exit it because it's on the racing line?

No other team lodged a protest, the FIA investigated this themselves, and nobody has protested the result. That probably tells you that the rest of the F1 community doesn't agree with the vast majority of people on this forum.

[Fulcrum]

Personally i am not that critical of Vettel. Being 1st and leading a GP is always a very difficult position. From 1st, you can only go backwards. Getting the perfect balance between risk and reward is hard; risk too much, you risk throwing it away, play it safe, well you might lose too. Vettel was being too cautious because he needed to and because he had the most to lose. This likely caused him to lose tire temps that led to less grip and his eventual mistake and crash. Hamilton on the other hand, well he was driving like someone with little to lose, was aggressive and maintained a lot of heat in his tires.

Completely disagree. Vettel did something metronomically dumb today. In the 5 laps leading up to his crash, he extended his gap to Raikkonen from 3 to 10 seconds. He was just pushing too hard and I have no idea why? It almost felt like he was trying to prove an unnecessary point!

A part of me has a feeling he did not like being held up by Raikkonen for that long. It's not the first time he would have lost his hot head and done something daft.

The gap extension was predominantly related to the tyres. Raikkonen was on much older Softs, and would have been far more heavily influenced by changes in temperature and moisture; saying nothing for his tendency to be cautious in slippery conditions. I don't think Vettel was pushing unduly hard given the circumstances.

Coupled to the fact that Bottas was becoming a threat, and Hamilton most definitely was a threat, I understand why he felt the need to push a bit. Unfortunately, the manner in which he responded to the pressure, as measured by the outcome, was sub-optimal. That's racing.

As I've commented already, I think Ferrari should shoulder some of the blame for this situation. My reasons being:

• They should have let Vettel past Raikkonen 3 or 4 laps earlier.

• Vettel would have been a further 2-3 seconds up the road of Bottas.

• They committed Raikkonen to a 2 stop, but didn't follow through with it in an optimal manner.

• They should have brought Raikkonen in 1 lap after Hamilton, putting him onto Ultras.

• Raikkonen would have covered off Hamilton, and begun to put pressure on Bottas from behind.

• Ferrari would have had the luxury of the lead, and their 2nd driver on the fastest tyres.

• Ferrari as a team would have been optimally placed to win across a wider range of circumstances, and Vettel himself would have been under less intense pressure at the end, as Kimi could have acted as a barrier to Hamilton, much like Bottas was to Raikkonen.

• And in the event of absolutely 'desperate' circumstances, Raikkonen could have secured the win to prevent Hamilton doing so.

By focusing with myopic intensity on their lead driver's strategy, to the absolute detriment of #2 and the team overall, they inadvertently put Vettel under more pressure.

[Spoutnik]

Am I the only one to expect/forecast a WDC push from Kimi ?

He keeps scoring points with many podiums (7 podiums ?) , and I think his pace recently has been very good (Austria, yersteday...) he's probably the most consistant and he's actually really wise

[Fulcrum]

Completely disagree. Vettel did something metronomically dumb today. In the 5 laps leading up to his crash, he extended his gap to Raikkonen from 3 to 10 seconds. He was just pushing too hard and I have no idea why? It almost felt like he was trying to prove an unnecessary point!

A part of me has a feeling he did not like being held up by Raikkonen for that long. It's not the first time he would have lost his hot head and done something daft.

Was it Vettel driving too fast or Kimi & Bottas too slow? I am honestly unsure, but as Hamilton was coming up behind both Bottas and Kimi, i recall a lot of backmarkers being tangled up in a big battle that surely must have accounted for that huge gap opening to Vettel ahead?

First of all, Kimi doesn't drive. He crawls around and picks up the crumbs left on the table. In my opinion, Bottas was on fresher tyres, yet Vettel was faster. He was only slower than Hamilton who had a substantial tyre advantage. In my opinion, he wouldn't have been able to keep Lewis at bay. People are saying Hamilton is great in the wet and the SC helped him bla bla bla. He won the race today because of the imperious stint on the S tyres. That's truly what won him the race.

Vettel should have simply played the long game and at worst would have been second. But, he decided to roll the dice and it ended in tears.

I completely disagree. Raikkonen was inadvertently given the better strategy on the day, and was actually quick enough to have won the race. Ferrari didn't pit him when they should have - immediately after Hamilton - and this cost Ferrari (Raikkonen) the race win.

In addition, such was Vettel's advantage that, given the information generated from Raikkonen's performance on Ultras - had they pitted him with Hamilton - Vettel would have had the opportunity to pit for Ultras himself, preserving track position to everyone barring Bottas. Bottas would have been an absolute sitting duck for all 3 (Vettel, Raikkonen, Hamilton).

[Nathanael F1]

I still don't understand how Hamilton didn't get a penalty for making up his own track when he ignored his engineer about to pit. Seriously.

Isn't this what happens at nearly half the tracks on the calendar when drivers enter the pit entry and exit it because it's on the racing line?

No other team lodged a protest, the FIA investigated this themselves, and nobody has protested the result. That probably tells you that the rest of the F1 community doesn't agree with the vast majority of people on this forum.

You didn't read my later comment?

[sosic2121]

Vettel deliberately crashed into an opponents car last year and got a slap on the wrist.

10s stop&go is slap on the wrist?

Yes. Crashing intentionally with an opponent, under SC!!, is far from a common or aceptable mistake. It should deserve a race ban at least, but they´d have ruined the fight for the title so FIA agenda kicked in again and Vettel got away with a laughable penalty for the huge and childish mistake he did

I have to disagree with you here. IMO there have been intentional contacts before, but often there was no penalty given.

Obviously, this one was very obvious and stupid (at first I thought Seb lost control, as I couldn't believe he could be that stupid). But I think there was no danger involved or damage done in touching wheels at 50kph.
Again, as Ferrari fan, I was more disappointed by Seb's move, then by FIA's decision.

P.S.There was also some favouritism towards Alonso in recent years. Don't make me go look for it!

[Fulcrum]

Am I the only one to expect/forecast a WDC push from Kimi ?

He keeps scoring points with many podiums (7 podiums ?) , and I think his pace recently has been very good (Austria, yersteday...) he's probably the most consistant and he's actually really wise

No chance considering the way Ferrari prioritise strategy. He's also simply not as quick as Vettel - not by much, but by a margin that isn't insignificant.

[Spoutnik]

Am I the only one to expect/forecast a WDC push from Kimi ?

He keeps scoring points with many podiums (7 podiums ?) , and I think his pace recently has been very good (Austria, yersteday...) he's probably the most consistant and he's actually really wise

No chance considering the way Ferrari prioritise strategy. He's also simply not as quick as Vettel - not by much, but by a margin that isn't insignificant.

Of course they do prioritise but sometimes by using Raikkonen as an experimental car or a bus they give him a good strategy (yersteday before the rain was a good example). I think the track of the 2nd part of the season suits more to his driving style and he understand more the car

[wesley123]

Let's talk about TR putting Gasly on full wets as it was only wet in the hairpin and then changing him back on slicks shortly before the rain started to get heavier.

That was the dumbest move of the day.

Why? The rain was pretty much anyones guess.