2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

[Jolle]

Can anyone explain the Haas DQ in more detail, is the another thread showing how their car is now illegal?

simple, when viewed the car from the underside, you can see bodywork apart from the floor. this is not permitted.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Can anyone explain the Haas DQ in more detail, is the another thread showing how their car is now illegal?

simple, when viewed the car from the underside, you can see bodywork apart from the floor. this is not permitted.

Ah okay, the siloutte rule, do we know which component is breaching the rule and how long it's been illegal?

[Restomaniac]

Apparenly the first chicane. Vettel does the exact same thing to Hamilton when they enter the corner. In fact Hamilton has two wheels over the white line and there is not much but a hair between their front tires.

But I do agree, squeezing an opponent before a corner is fair, but these actions were too much. A cars width should be measured between the car and the inside of the white line, not whatever driveable surface is out there. So the penalty is OK.

But I also can understand. The Red Bull is currently in no mans land, 30 seconds adrift of the next car. Ves could land a comfortable fifth in any race, with the engine tuned down. But you would only see the car at the start and in the result table.

Smart thing, points wise, would have been to have Bottas pass on lap 5 and concentrate on fending of vettel. But by taking the fight to Mercedes, it may have cost him 2 points, but gained RB 30 mins of tv coverage, and showed his possible future (2020) employer Mercedes, that he has the measure on Bottas. But in order to be able to do that he has to take everything out of the car and the rules there is, since the car is not quick enough.

You’re comparing a start with just 2 cars. That comparison doesn’t work.
What Verstappen did was a slam dunk penalty.
There is no way Mercedes would currently take on the loose cannon that is Max Verstappen. He has the talent but currently is unable to take any criticism or see anyone else’s point of view. There is now way a machine like Mercedes-AMG takes on somebody who thinks he is bigger than everybody else in it.

I agree that the penalty was correct. Just a squeeze of a few inches too much...

But attacking him that he was upset with the penalty and don't take public criticism. There are many of them on the grid, even during this race. Vettel moaning about Hamilton while it was clearly his fault, or Alonso who's kinda nasty against Magnussen and HAAS after Q. By default drivers rarely, very rarely admit their mistakes, it's not a flaw, its what racers do.

Most drivers do on occasion when it’s as blatant as today. Verstappen however seems to think he’s above it and then calls the stewards out for correctly doing their job. He then throws a major strop to the detriment of himself and his teams points. He seriously needs to grow up. He cannot use the ‘new guy on the block’ excuse anymore. Hell he was actually given leeway and warned 2 laps before hand. But as usual in his own mind Max is above ALL that.

[f1316]

For all that the drivers played their part - and I do think Hamilton is driving very well, taking his chances, whereas Seb is too often taking unnecessary risks - Ferrari really are to blame for how they’re not maximising team decisions this year; everyone says they favour their lead driver anyway, but they actually fail to do so effectively time and again this year, with the evidence once again shown today that Kimi just isn’t capable of leading the Ferrari charge against Hamilton.

Martin Brundle says it best:

“Martin Brundle: "I think Ferrari blew it yesterday because they should have slipstreamed Vettel on to pole. Mercedes have already shown they are prepared to play the team game back in Hockenheim, and again today. It should have been Vettel on pole and Raikkonen defending him, they had it covered.

"I can't help but feel they are throwing it away at Ferrari.

"If we go back to Hockenheim they really could have let Vettel past Raikkonen then as well."

[Restomaniac]

The team screwed up though, he lost a lot of time defending against Bottas even after that when he was losing the position anyway. The faster car was stuck behind, let him through, stop defending and use Bottas's faster cars tow to try to stay 5 seconds ahead of Vettel. In fact had the team told him to let him through immediately the stewards may not have penalised him. Even if he gives up 4th to Vettel, he was risking Bottas and him not finishing which would have cost him even worse.

Judging by the team radio i tend to believe that he was told about the ever closing gap to Vettel and was probably also advised to just let Bottas go but he said he didn't care and threw away P4

Which is something I would expect my 8 and 10 year old’s to do not a guy who is 20 years of age.

I mean where is the logic in it? I’m going to deliberately hurt myself to prove some random point to nobody. Does he actually think the stewards will say ‘Oh hang on last time ‘Ickle Max got upset, insulted us and intentionally hurt himself so we won’t give the poor little flower a penalty that he deserves’. It’s incredibly childish.

[Sieper]

That is not what Max thinks, he truely thinks he left enough room, not looking at the white line but just looking at the tarmac he also did just that. He drove his balls of in order to fight with the second Mercedes, not for Any 2020 prospect but just as he always does, he is always looking for a podium as long as he cannot fight for WDC.

He could have not overtake Bottas at start.
He could have not been much more awake at SC restart then Bottas was.
He could have just let Bottas pass (and had he made a better move he would have done that).
He could have turned the engine down in lap 30 and might have ended up in 4th.

He fought for the podium. I for one am happy he did. Had he left a few more centimeters he might even have made it.

[Restomaniac]

That is not what Max thinks, he truely thinks he left enough room, not looking at the white line but just looking at the tarmac he also did just that. He drove his balls of in order to fight with the second Mercedes, not for Any 2020 prospect but just as he always does, he is always looking for a podium as long as he cannot fight for WDC.

He could have not overtake Bottas at start.
He could have not been much more awake at SC restart then Bottas was.
He could have just let Bottas pass (and had he made a better move he would have done that).
He could have turned the engine down in lap 30 and might have ended up in 4th.

He fought for the podium. I for one am happy he did. Had he left a few more centimeters he might even have made it.

If he doesn’t know the rules that’s his fault and after 3 years that’s worrying.
His reaction to the penalty was childish pure and simple. It wasn’t the reaction of a racer but that of a big baby.
Sorry but it stands up to no logic. The words ‘dummy spit’ get used a lot but I’m struggling to think of another way to discribe it.

[Sieper]

Many of us are surprised that rules sometimes do and sometimes don’t get enforced.

[Jolle]

Having to seek the line of what is allowed and possible is a direct consequence of being in a slower car. He hasn’t had the comfort, like Hamilton this race for instance, to wait and let the car do the work.

[TAG]

Having to seek the line of what is allowed and possible is a direct consequence of being in a slower car. He hasn’t had the comfort, like Hamilton this race for instance, to wait and let the car do the work.

That would be a fine explanation but he's done the same to his teammate in equal cars, so I don't think that's it.

[Restomaniac]

Many of us are surprised that rules sometimes do and sometimes don’t get enforced.

I’m sorry but if you force another car to go via the polystyrene bollards into turn 1 in normal racing in Monza then you had better be ready for a penalty. I don’t care who you are.

There are reasons you don’t see drivers pulling that trick very often. Because they know what’s coming if they do. It’s worrying that he cannot understand that.

He’s not inexperienced or a junior driver anymore.
Ask yourself this question. Would you expect a great driver to.
A-Try it.
B-Not see what’s coming next.

[Jolle]

Having to seek the line of what is allowed and possible is a direct consequence of being in a slower car. He hasn’t had the comfort, like Hamilton this race for instance, to wait and let the car do the work.

That would be a fine explanation but he's done the same to his teammate in equal cars, so I don't think that's it.

That’s the main reason teammates clash... they themselves are the only advantage in their mind... all fairly equal teammates clash on a fairly regular basis. If not, your team is out of balance.

[Just_a_fan]

Having to seek the line of what is allowed and possible is a direct consequence of being in a slower car. He hasn’t had the comfort, like Hamilton this race for instance, to wait and let the car do the work.

So Leclerc or Sainz can push Verstappen off track next race then? After all, they're in inferior cars...

[Jolle]

Having to seek the line of what is allowed and possible is a direct consequence of being in a slower car. He hasn’t had the comfort, like Hamilton this race for instance, to wait and let the car do the work.

So Leclerc or Sainz can push Verstappen off track next race then? After all, they're in inferior cars...

Read a bit more, I didn’t say he’s allowed to, I think the penalty was fair and square. You don’t push people off the track, period. But I do understand why he has to take those risks. If you are racing on the edge, you cross it sometimes. He hasn’t got the luxary of leaving a couple of inches leeway that Vettel and Hamilton have when their cars are the fastest of the field by a couple of tenths. That Mercedes with Bottas was a full second a lap faster then the RB.

[Restomaniac]

Having to seek the line of what is allowed and possible is a direct consequence of being in a slower car. He hasn’t had the comfort, like Hamilton this race for instance, to wait and let the car do the work.

So Leclerc or Sainz can push Verstappen off track next race then? After all, they're in inferior cars...

Read a bit more, I didn’t say he’s allowed to, I think the penalty was fair and square. You don’t push people off the track, period. But I do understand why he has to take those risks. If you are racing on the edge, you cross it sometimes. He hasn’t got the luxary of leaving a couple of inches leeway that Vettel and Hamilton have when their cars are the fastest of the field by a couple of tenths.

No he has got the luxury of playing by the rules.
If he chooses not to that’s up to him. His reaction is one of a driver who doesn’t understand. THAT is a worry after 3 years.