2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

[NYGIANTS]

The team screwed up though, he lost a lot of time defending against Bottas even after that when he was losing the position anyway. The faster car was stuck behind, let him through, stop defending and use Bottas's faster cars tow to try to stay 5 seconds ahead of Vettel. In fact had the team told him to let him through immediately the stewards may not have penalised him. Even if he gives up 4th to Vettel, he was risking Bottas and him not finishing which would have cost him even worse.

Judging by the team radio i tend to believe that he was told about the ever closing gap to Vettel and was probably also advised to just let Bottas go but he said he didn't care and threw away P4

Which is something I would expect my 8 and 10 year old’s to do not a guy who is 20 years of age.

I mean where is the logic in it? I’m going to deliberately hurt myself to prove some random point to nobody. Does he actually think the stewards will say ‘Oh hang on last time ‘Ickle Max got upset, insulted us and intentionally hurt himself so we won’t give the poor little flower a penalty that he deserves’. It’s incredibly childish.

its not age, because there's an ex red bull driver whose in his 30's that behaves at times very similar when he's on the radio. the common denominator here is red bull and how they cradle their petulant drivers.

[drunkf1fan]

He didn't actually brake any rules though. He was genuinely faster down the straight due the tow of being that close and there is no rule that you aren't allowed to overtake on hot laps, particularly if the guy ahead is slower.

It was a move that Alonso certainly knew wouldnt' come off and would stop any chance of a good lap time being set by him, but he was already going to have a bad lap time because of what Magnussen did.

Magnussen did something that isn't against the rules but no drivers do to each other so Alonso did something that isn't against the rules but drivers don't do to each other.

For Monza if you aren't at the right pace into parabolica then the entire lap is already ruined so overtaking right into the start or parabolica gave Alonso zero chance to back off while also getting the speed and exit required for a hot lap. Hell, Magnussen overtaking so late and into parabolica probably meant his entry and speed were ruined already which is probably how Alonso was able to get such a good tow. So Magnussen probably ruined his own and Alonso's lap with that overtake, I have no idea why he did it.

[Andres125sx]

Four wheels off the track, starting your Q lap to close to the guy in front and then block him while you get back on to track. they should take his licence But rules don't apply to Alonso...

Alonso started the Q lap too close to Kevin because Kevin decided to break a well known gentlemen agreement. Obviously you don´t know it, but there´s a gentlemen agreement about drivers NOT overtaking the car in front when he´s slowing down just before his fast lap to let some car in front go and get some clean air

Magnusen, who obviously is not a gentleman, broke that agreement, overtook Alonso at parabolica just before his fast lap ruining his last attempt, and got some instant karma

Kevin must be kinda stupid if he was thinking he could fu** up Alonso this way

so..... breaking the rules in some kind of payback karma kinda way is allowed? or just if your name is Alonso? or not Max?

What rule did he break man?

Alonso went a bit long, but since there´re two consecutive corners keeping the outside is completely viable as it´s the inside for next corner, and that´s what he did

[NYGIANTS]

He hasn’t got the luxary of leaving a couple of inches leeway that Vettel and Hamilton have when their cars are the fastest of the field by a couple of tenths.

He hasn't got the class necessary to race close, that's the problem. He came in to F1 with very little single seater experience but lots of hype. He's believed the hype from day one and not improved himself. He is also surrounded by a group of people who refuse to admonish him. The result is the spoilt brat we saw today.

It's a shame - he really could be as good as the hype if he were helped to mature as a driver and, crucially, as a man.

agree, and i hope one day (sooner) he does realize cause i wouldn't want him to end up like a montoya.

[Jolle]

Alonso started the Q lap too close to Kevin because Kevin decided to break a well known gentlemen agreement. Obviously you don´t know it, but there´s a gentlemen agreement about drivers NOT overtaking the car in front when he´s slowing down just before his fast lap to let some car in front go and get some clean air

Magnusen, who obviously is not a gentleman, broke that agreement, overtook Alonso at parabolica just before his fast lap ruining his last attempt, and got some instant karma

Kevin must be kinda stupid if he was thinking he could fu** up Alonso this way

so..... breaking the rules in some kind of payback karma kinda way is allowed? or just if your name is Alonso? or not Max?

What rule did he break man?

Alonso went a bit long, but since there´re two consecutive corners keeping the outside is completely viable as it´s the inside for next corner, and that´s what he did

he came back on track after being off with all four wheel in the path of another driver. An offence where someone like Maldonado had a penalty for.

[Sierra117]

Anyone find Gasly growing on then? Love his radio celebrations like when he qualified for 10th here. The way he says "Yyyyyyesssss!!!"

[dans79]

so..... breaking the rules in some kind of payback karma kinda way is allowed? or just if your name is Alonso? or not Max?

Their is a difference between an unspoken rule between the drivers and an official FIA rule.

[Jolle]

so..... breaking the rules in some kind of payback karma kinda way is allowed? or just if your name is Alonso? or not Max?

Their is a difference between an unspoken rule between the drivers and an official FIA rule.

I used this example because some here are calling out murder for VER while others are not receiving any penalties after making contact of breaking rules.
And there is a very clear rule how to get back on track after you went outside the lines. It must be done without obstructing another driver or in an unsafe manner.

[ThumbsUp]

I would like to say a small thing about the Max and Bottas incident.

The firtst ‘attemt’ of Bottas he came from waaaay back and locked his front and in a reaction to that Max took an avoiding move to cut the chicane. That was his joker once.

The second ‘attempt’ of Bottos he wasn’t really alongside only near the end of the track and then Max came in a little bit to much to the left to take the corner as he did before and alle drivers did before. And then touched Bottas tire slightly.

In my opinion Bottos move wasn’t gonna stick anyway, but unfortunately they slightly wheelbanged. So I think 5 sec was a little to much for that. More a racing incident.

Anyways he got the penalty and after that he was never able to get 4th with Vettel on the way on fresher SS charging the top 3.

I like how Peter Windsor thinks about it:
https://motorsport.tv/embed/qtaSTzuF

[Clearhooter]

I just read stewards for the Italian GP have negated Grosjean & HAAS's points for the 2018. Italian GP.... Might even consider it a double DNS ? Seems a floorboard pan wasn't in compliance. I'm sure the FIA wouldn't use coercion. But I also read today that HAAS is the only team NOT to have agreed to let, who ever Force India will be, back into the fold on their own terms. Coincidence ? A suspicious mind might even read something into the Magnussen's contact. I don't mean to sound suspicious.

[dans79]

so..... breaking the rules in some kind of payback karma kinda way is allowed? or just if your name is Alonso? or not Max?

Their is a difference between an unspoken rule between the drivers and an official FIA rule.

I used this example because some here are calling out murder for VER while others are not receiving any penalties after making contact of breaking rules.
And there is a very clear rule how to get back on track after you went outside the lines. It must be done without obstructing another driver or in an unsafe manner.

What can I tell you, life isn't fair. Not to mention Max has done himself no favors with his petulant attitude, outbursts about every perceived injustices by the stewards, and what seems like an inability to learn from his mistakes.

[nevill3]

I just read stewards for the Italian GP have negated Grosjean & HAAS's points for the 2018. Italian GP.... Might even consider it a double DNS ? Seems a floorboard pan wasn't in compliance. I'm sure the FIA wouldn't use coercion. But I also read today that HAAS is the only team NOT to have agreed to let, who ever Force India will be, back into the fold on their own terms. Coincidence ? A suspicious mind might even read something into the Magnussen's contact. I don't mean to sound suspicious.

It was Renault that raised an objection that resulted in Haas's exclusion, probably because they had beaten them in the race and had taken 4th in the wcc standings too. Haas had been warned that their T tray was against the rules as described in a technical directive that was issued to clarify a grey area. All the teams were given until the race at Monza to comply but Haas said they needed more time but were not explicitly given permission to run the "illegal" floor but advised they could be excluded if another team decided to complain to the stewards which did indeed happen. They knew the risks but decided to roll the dice and have lost out.

[strad]

Exactly. After being told that ‘he’d played his joker’ he does it again.

.
Exactly Phil.... The joker he used was in reference to the short cutting of the chicane.

[Sieper]

Why would they take such a risk? If I were Renault I would complain too, and If I were Haas I would assume others would. A misjudged trust in others? A misjudged trust they could overpower others? I cannot understand they took the risk If the cards really lay as described. A big disservice to Grosjean.

[TwanV]

Their is a difference between an unspoken rule between the drivers and an official FIA rule.

I used this example because some here are calling out murder for VER while others are not receiving any penalties after making contact of breaking rules.
And there is a very clear rule how to get back on track after you went outside the lines. It must be done without obstructing another driver or in an unsafe manner.

What can I tell you, life isn't fair. Not to mention Max has done himself no favors with his petulant attitude, outbursts about every perceived injustices by the stewards, and what seems like an inability to learn from his mistakes.

There seem to be two camps in play here, one that isn't too keen on "wonderboy hamfisting his way around the field, needs a lesson his privilege is unfair " and one that sees his style and speed as a blessing /answer to boring old F1. He complains but which other top driver doesn't? The problem is there is almost no go between pro and con with VES apparently but please guys try to be a little aware about your own attitude or bias. The stewards are not 100% consistent but the same can be said about f1technical folks in driver treatment.

We can keep each other busy walking in circles every two weeks by myself and others stepping up to respond on some pretty strong arguments over VES or other drivers but we can also try to discuss this stuff in a more sensible manner.