2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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GrandAxe wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 12:17
Alonso made his own "luck". Personality is part of quality.
Ye, agreed. Look at Mansell for example. He did a lot of back and forth between teams, winning the title he deserved at the end. Alonso could've been back at Ferrari, and once again paid top dollar for it. But his, his.. how do I put this politely.. umm.. 'incompatible personality' made such a move impossible.
Last edited by Shrieker on 07 Oct 2018, 12:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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GrandAxe wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 12:09
Lewis was paired with the reigning world champ in his very first year and did an impressive job by coming out tops, losing the WDC by only a point.
What member of the current pack is as good as Alonso?

Lewis doesn't need to be paired with anyone to prove anything further.
Everybody keeps forgetting Kovalainen. Great talent, ambitious and wrecked by McLaren and Hamilton in 2008 and 2009. Where Vettel and especially Alonso had this number one position very well sorted in their careers, Hamilton for most of his career just been one of the two drivers. Just now as a (almost) 5 times world champion he gets his lead driver position.

GrandAxe
GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Shrieker wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 12:21
umm.. 'incompatible personality'.
That, sir, is indeed a kind way of laying out pressing concerns. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 12:22
GrandAxe wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 12:09
Lewis was paired with the reigning world champ in his very first year and did an impressive job by coming out tops, losing the WDC by only a point.
What member of the current pack is as good as Alonso?

Lewis doesn't need to be paired with anyone to prove anything further.
Everybody keeps forgetting Kovalainen. Great talent, ambitious and wrecked by McLaren and Hamilton in 2008 and 2009. Where Vettel and especially Alonso had this number one position very well sorted in their careers, Hamilton for most of his career just been one of the two drivers. Just now as a (almost) 5 times world champion he gets his lead driver position.
Exactly. People said a lot before Kovalainen hopped in the next car, then less and less after he seemed to be moving backwards relative to Lewis unrelenting talent. Lewis has always had to fight for his ground, never #1.

Maybe I'm cynical, but Mercedes action last race seemed to me to be born as much out of self interest as to seal the title. You know ... Raise the man's status to #1 just when his impeccable season shows that Schumarcher's record 7 WDC's set at Ferrari can be broken or equalled. A clear #1 status will make that easier to achieve; that way, for eternity, Merc will always get mention beside Lewis name. Replace mention of Ferrari with mention of Mercedes - free advert.

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F1NAC
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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GPR -A wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 11:08
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 10:38
50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.
Nobody wins in a dog of a car. Neither did Senna in 1992 and 1993. At best, they can make an impression once in a while through the season, which Lewis also did in 2009 and 2011. Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Just ignore my comment there. It is just boring to watch how he will get his 5th championship easier than ever. It was supposed to be maybe his most challenging battle for the championship and then Ferrari and Vettel keep punching the championshipnaway from them

TheGkbrk
TheGkbrk
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Fernando was a number one driver because of his dominance over many of his teammates. No one gets a priority out of nothing.
Lewis in a dog car? Maybe a bit in 2009 but never ever a car that is an actual backmarker. I don't think we will see such a thing anyway. Nothing to blame surely but not comparable to Alonso.

It was a faultless drive by Lewis, he will get the title in Austin. For Vettel, many mistakes, lack of maturity, patience and consistency, especially under pressure. After those Red Bull years his career went low and lost some of his prestige. Lewis very well deserved the title.

Jolle
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:02
GPR -A wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 11:08
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 10:38
50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.
Nobody wins in a dog of a car. Neither did Senna in 1992 and 1993. At best, they can make an impression once in a while through the season, which Lewis also did in 2009 and 2011. Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Just ignore my comment there. It is just boring to watch how he will get his 5th championship easier than ever. It was supposed to be maybe his most challenging battle for the championship and then Ferrari and Vettel keep punching the championshipnaway from them
Vettel threw away around 50 points this year on mistakes. Hamilton's big lead isn't because he's in the best car, it's because he didn't make those mistakes. You can't blame him for good driving.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:11
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:02
GPR -A wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 11:08
Nobody wins in a dog of a car. Neither did Senna in 1992 and 1993. At best, they can make an impression once in a while through the season, which Lewis also did in 2009 and 2011. Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Just ignore my comment there. It is just boring to watch how he will get his 5th championship easier than ever. It was supposed to be maybe his most challenging battle for the championship and then Ferrari and Vettel keep punching the championshipnaway from them
Vettel threw away around 50 points this year on mistakes. Hamilton's big lead isn't because he's in the best car, it's because he didn't make those mistakes. You can't blame him for good driving.
Indeed. Hamilton is a nightmare to beat on form and currently he’s on form.

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F1NAC
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Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:11
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:02
GPR -A wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 11:08
Nobody wins in a dog of a car. Neither did Senna in 1992 and 1993. At best, they can make an impression once in a while through the season, which Lewis also did in 2009 and 2011. Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Just ignore my comment there. It is just boring to watch how he will get his 5th championship easier than ever. It was supposed to be maybe his most challenging battle for the championship and then Ferrari and Vettel keep punching the championshipnaway from them
Vettel threw away around 50 points this year on mistakes. Hamilton's big lead isn't because he's in the best car, it's because he didn't make those mistakes. You can't blame him for good driving.
I don't blame him. Tf? I never said he doesn't deserve. He was driving magnificent this year. But till the middle of the season this one looked like one of the most intense season in recent years. Yet Vettel and Ferrari derailed and we are now watching championship being clinched in USA already

SchuMassa
SchuMassa
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:11
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:02
GPR -A wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 11:08
Nobody wins in a dog of a car. Neither did Senna in 1992 and 1993. At best, they can make an impression once in a while through the season, which Lewis also did in 2009 and 2011. Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Just ignore my comment there. It is just boring to watch how he will get his 5th championship easier than ever. It was supposed to be maybe his most challenging battle for the championship and then Ferrari and Vettel keep punching the championshipnaway from them
Vettel threw away around 50 points this year on mistakes. Hamilton's big lead isn't because he's in the best car, it's because he didn't make those mistakes. You can't blame him for good driving.
Claiming that he is not in the best car (especially after the last 2-3 races) is, well, ridiculous. Even when (around mid-season) Ferrari had the edge pace-wise, Mercedes was the better team (regarding strategy, decision making etc) overall.

GrandAxe
GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:20
Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:11
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:02


Just ignore my comment there. It is just boring to watch how he will get his 5th championship easier than ever. It was supposed to be maybe his most challenging battle for the championship and then Ferrari and Vettel keep punching the championshipnaway from them
Vettel threw away around 50 points this year on mistakes. Hamilton's big lead isn't because he's in the best car, it's because he didn't make those mistakes. You can't blame him for good driving.
I don't blame him. Tf? I never said he doesn't deserve. He was driving magnificent this year. But till the middle of the season this one looked like one of the most intense season in recent years. Yet Vettel and Ferrari derailed and we are now watching championship being clinched in USA already
I feel you. Even as a Lewis fan I felt a sense of anticlimax when Vettel flunked Q3, then his performance in the race just took away any lingering hopes of excitement.

Jolle
Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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SchuMassa wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:20
Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:11
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:02


Just ignore my comment there. It is just boring to watch how he will get his 5th championship easier than ever. It was supposed to be maybe his most challenging battle for the championship and then Ferrari and Vettel keep punching the championshipnaway from them
Vettel threw away around 50 points this year on mistakes. Hamilton's big lead isn't because he's in the best car, it's because he didn't make those mistakes. You can't blame him for good driving.
Claiming that he is not in the best car (especially after the last 2-3 races) is, well, ridiculous. Even when (around mid-season) Ferrari had the edge pace-wise, Mercedes was the better team (regarding strategy, decision making etc) overall.
I didn’t claim he’s not in the best car, I said that his lead is this big because Vettel made a mess of it. If Vettel preformed as Hamilton, Hamilton would be leading with 10-20 points right now and we would have a real championship battle.

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:30
SchuMassa wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:20
Jolle wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 13:11


Vettel threw away around 50 points this year on mistakes. Hamilton's big lead isn't because he's in the best car, it's because he didn't make those mistakes. You can't blame him for good driving.
Claiming that he is not in the best car (especially after the last 2-3 races) is, well, ridiculous. Even when (around mid-season) Ferrari had the edge pace-wise, Mercedes was the better team (regarding strategy, decision making etc) overall.
I didn’t claim he’s not in the best car, I said that his lead is this big because Vettel made a mess of it. If Vettel preformed as Hamilton, Hamilton would be leading with 10-20 points right now and we would have a real championship battle.
I think that is too much. There were no 25 points in Germany, with the pace of Ham on the better tire he would have easily overtaken. Same Monza. I do not see how this should be won by Ferrari even without driver faults...
Don`t russel the hamster!

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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GPR -A wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 11:08
F1NAC wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 10:38
50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.
Nobody wins in a dog of a car. Neither did Senna in 1992 and 1993. At best, they can make an impression once in a while through the season, which Lewis also did in 2009 and 2011. Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Might want to see the 98' season and the guy whose helmet is your avatar.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Verstappen is a smart cookie. That, and flat out dirty. Watch that video a couple of times, and tell me why he doesn't try going a little bit straight (cutting the exit of the chicane a little more). Ding ding ! If he does that, he'll be a sitting duck on the straight, since Raikonen has momentum coming out. The reason behind what he did was to block Raikkonen, compromising his exit to prevent him from overtaking. 5 seconds for this is basically getting off scot free.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Shrieker wrote:
07 Oct 2018, 15:04
https://streamable.com/4oh8k

Verstappen is a smart cookie. That, and flat out dirty. Watch that video a couple of times, and tell me why he doesn't try going a little bit straight (cutting the exit of the chicane a little more). Ding ding ! If he does that, he'll be a sitting duck on the straight, since Raikonen has momentum coming out. The reason behind what he did was to block Raikkonen, compromising his exit to prevent him from overtaking. 5 seconds for this is basically getting off scot free.
He has nothing to lose at the moment. When the season had started, it did look for a while that it could be a 3 way title fight and it looked like it would be Ricciardo who would be carrying the honours for Red Bull. He's probably the most talented kid I've seen since Schumacher but he's not as calculated as him. Dirty, yes. Calculated, no.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"