2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[godlameroso]

If anyone gets the boot it'll be Sainz.

[the EDGE]

Alonso's not coming back, as much as Button didn't come back after retirement.
There was a one-off moment he got back in the seat for Alonso.

That same MIGHT happen if Sainz gets a crach and breaks a leg or something if he couldn't drive.
Apart from that, Alonso is not coming back.

As sad as i think that is, as i think he's a absolute great and it's a loss for f1 he's not around.

You forgot about Schumacher, he didn’t come back after, oh, wait a minute... he did come back!

[Capharol]

Alonso is probably more hungry for a win than both of them combined, and Norris is likely the one who'll be out if he's not on pace and the event arises. decides to come back. Not that I'm against any of em keeping the seat, but just saying.

I know i will get a lot of down votes for this, but i think it's the best for McLaren if they don't bring back Alonso, Yes he is a exceptional driver but McLaren should look forward and not dwel in the past

They don't care about past or present, just pace and consistency; both of which Alonso has plenty of. I mean, he outqualified Vandoorne 21-0 last season alone...

Well VanDoorne wasn't really a challenge even Stroll would have kicked VanDoorne his A***

[NathanOlder]

You have no idea. What Vandoorne did, was show just how good Alonso still is.

[adrianjordan]

You have no idea. What Vandoorne did, was show just how good Alonso still is.

To be fair, none of us can really say how good or bad Vandoorne really is. Only Mclaren know for certain.

He didn't do enough to keep his seat and doesn't seem to be setting FE alight either, so I do wonder whether he was over hyped a little bit.

[NathanOlder]

How can anyone be over hyped with how Vandoorne performed in GP2, If we compare him to other recent F2 champions at that level, where all things are as equal as they ever will be,

Vandoorne, Gasly & Leclerc the 2015, 2016 & 2017 champions.

Vandoorne -- 21 races -- 7 wins -- 16 podiums -- 341.5 points -- On the podium at every event.

Gasly -- 22 races -- 4 wins -- 9 podiums -- 219 points -- 3 events not on the podium at all.

Leclerc -- 22 races -- 7 wins -- 10 podiums -- 282 points -- 4 events not on the podium at all.

Then when all 3 got to F1 in their 1st full seasons,
Vandoorne was placed next to Alonso , one of the best of all time and seemingly still as good as ever.
Gasly was placed next Hartley.
Leclerc was placed to next to Ericsson.
So who would find it almost impossible to look good.

[marmer]

How can anyone be over hyped with how Vandoorne performed in GP2, If we compare him to other recent F2 champions at that level, where all things are as equal as they ever will be,

Vandoorne, Gasly & Leclerc the 2015, 2016 & 2017 champions.

Vandoorne -- 21 races -- 7 wins -- 16 podiums -- 341.5 points -- On the podium at every event.

Gasly -- 22 races -- 4 wins -- 9 podiums -- 219 points -- 3 events not on the podium at all.

Leclerc -- 22 races -- 7 wins -- 10 podiums -- 282 points -- 4 events not on the podium at all.

Then when all 3 got to F1 in their 1st full seasons,
Vandoorne was placed next to Alonso , one of the best of all time and seemingly still as good as ever.
Gasly was placed next Hartley.
Leclerc was placed to next to Ericsson.
So who would find it almost impossible to look good.

There is looking bad next to alonso then there is getting no where near him.

But it's not just the direct comparison to team mate. Stoff was just plain boring I can't remember a single remarkable thing he has done in f1. And he has had longer in the sport than the other two.

Also didn't button turn up at Monaco and out qualify him allbeit due to stoff crashing but it still counts

[Ground Effect]

How can anyone be over hyped with how Vandoorne performed in GP2, If we compare him to other recent F2 champions at that level, where all things are as equal as they ever will be,

Vandoorne, Gasly & Leclerc the 2015, 2016 & 2017 champions.

Vandoorne -- 21 races -- 7 wins -- 16 podiums -- 341.5 points -- On the podium at every event.

Gasly -- 22 races -- 4 wins -- 9 podiums -- 219 points -- 3 events not on the podium at all.

Leclerc -- 22 races -- 7 wins -- 10 podiums -- 282 points -- 4 events not on the podium at all.

Then when all 3 got to F1 in their 1st full seasons,
Vandoorne was placed next to Alonso , one of the best of all time and seemingly still as good as ever.
Gasly was placed next Hartley.
Leclerc was placed to next to Ericsson.
So who would find it almost impossible to look good.

There is looking bad next to alonso then there is getting no where near him.

But it's not just the direct comparison to team mate. Stoff was just plain boring I can't remember a single remarkable thing he has done in f1. And he has had longer in the sport than the other two.

Also didn't button turn up at Monaco and out qualify him allbeit due to stoff crashing but it still counts

I know I've said this before, but I truly think Stoffel was caught out by the 2017 rules, which increased down force, plus wider tyres for more grip. Stoffel strong point was finding where the grip was, which gave him an advantage. I believe his main problem was adaptability, because he couldn't come to terms with the new generation of cars. Yes, Button showed up at Monaco and out qualified him. But remember, he showed up at Bahrain and out qualified Button, fair and square on his debut.

[Vasconia]

If he finds a competitive drive he will be back, if he doesn’t he won’t. It is that simple

I hope he doesn´t return to McLaren. The team has two young and hungry drivers. And Carlos finally needs some peace and long term stability, something he hasn´t enjoyed so far.

Alonso is probably more hungry for a win than both of them combined, and Norris is likely the one who'll be out if he's not on pace and the event arises. decides to come back. Not that I'm against any of em keeping the seat, but just saying.

I think all of them are super hungry but I would put my money on Alonso if I had to do. Anway, I don´t expect McLaren to be in the front so what the team needs is two drivers totally focused on improving the car for the next years.

[Raleigh]

Alonso's talent is being extremely adaptable and able to drive almost any car to the limits, something which you can see in his instant success outside F1.

He's not necessarily outright faster than the likes of Hamilton, Vettel or Verstappen, when Alonso has gone head-to-head with other top drivers on equal terms things have been fairly even (Hamilton matching Alonso as a rookie, and Button doing well in their McLaren days together).

However when Alonso is the lead driver then either by accident or design you end with a car that is undrivable for anyone else. Massa at Ferrari, getting crushed, not even close to Alonso, goes off to Williams where he suddenly starts driving much better and gets a bunch of podiums. Kimi at Lotus, race win, multiple podiums, 3rd in drivers championship, moves to nominally faster Ferrari team and suddenly nowhere, gets wrecked by Alonso. When Alonso leaves, Kimi bounces back to good form, better results leading up to 2018 where he arguably outdrove Vettel for half a season and wound up 3rd in championship.

So where does that leave Vandoorne? Came in as a rookie, Alonso the unquestioned lead driver and firmly established at McLaren, the car is set up by and for Alonso, probably undrivable for Vandoorne (or anyone else), no surprise Vandoorne gets thrashed. Never had a chance regardless of talent.

[Manoah2u]

Vandoorne is as talented in F1 as a sack of hay waiting for a tractor to pick it up.
His performances waited just as long, or better said, no tractor ever picked it up.
Meanwhile, the sack of hay always had an excuse for staying in the field rather become useful.

From all 'fresh' drivers recently at Mclaren, Vandoorne was the worst of them all.

Perez managed to put in some impressive races and was far from outsnowed by Button.
Magnussen got 2nd place in his first race, and also kept up relatively well.

Button kept up very well with Alonso, so one could argue they weren't far apart in speed.

Then the hyped wonder Vandoorne came in and was nowhere near alonso ever, was always at the back,
and always seemed to look like he's lost. Matter of fact, he reminded me of that other driver with the
charisma of a haystack, Joylon Palmer. Exactly the same. Talentless, excuses and excuses.

I'm very glad he's out. Honestly.

If Mclaren wanted results from their 2nd driver, they should have hired Hulkenburg. I'm pretty sure he would
have kept up very well next to Alonso.

But guys like Vandoorne, Palmer, Ericsson, all are complete and utter useless for F1.
Sure they might get some reasonable results in other classes, but this is way out of their league.

I rate Sainz pretty well - not as high as Alonso, but pretty high nevertheless.
I'm curious for Norris though. Will have to see. First see, then believe.

[marmer]

While talking about set up of the car let's not forget that Charles came into a sauber that would have only Marcuse's input on it from a drivers point of view and still blew him away. And he hadn't been around the team as a junior McLaren new all about stoff and how he likes to drive.

To top it off he hasn't looked great in Fe so far and most F1 drivers do well right away

[Manoah2u]

He's indeed as useless in FE as he is in F1.

[NathanOlder]

@Manoah2u

"Might get some reasonable results in other classes" When Gp2 ended, Vandoorne held nearly every record in the series, and he was only there 2 years, not like he hung around and took records.

Here are a few

Total wins
Total wins in feature races
Total pole positions
Most consecutive pole positions
Total podiums
Most podiums in a season
Total points
Most points in a season

And holding all these are just reasonable results

He performed better than Hamilton, Rosberg, Lelclerc, Gasly, Grosjean, Kovalainen, Ericsson, Glock, Piquet , Maldonado, Perez , Petrov & Bianchi. All of these had longer in F1 than Vandoorne, yet he beat them all in stats in F1's feeder series. To say he has no talent is nothing short of a joke.

[Jolle]

I think with Vandoorne it's a combination of several things, part Alonso, part McLaren and part Vandoorne.

- McLaren has a history of hyping their young drivers as "the next Senna/Hamilton" while since Hamilton this hasn't been the case. The same faith might fall to Norris.
- The more difficult a car is to drive, the greater the distance between the guys like Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen and the rest. If you give a guy like Vandoorne and Alonso a predicable car, they (or anyone else) would be pretty close. One of the best examples of this was during the, I think, German GP a couple of years ago. The wind changed for the last few laps of qualifying and suddenly Hamilton was .5 clear of Rosberg.
- McLaren (and Honda) were 100% focused on Alonso. Where McLaren used to be a well oiled and well prepared team, the last few days they had more then once just one set of good parts, and they always were on Alonso's car. He was their main focus ("we must keep Fernando happy")