Belgian GP 2008

[The FOZ]

Nobody's mentioned this yet - at the very beginning of the race, it seemed there was a little drama with Kimi and Massa jockeying for second place behind Hamilton. I found it pretty interesting, and a sign that maybe things aren't all good behind the scenes at Ferrari.

[modbaraban]

saying that had pouhon been the old gravel trap kimi would still be beached

You mean both of them beached? That would be some ending

[bizadfar]

Sure the race got ruined, but you're not looking hard enough at what kicked this off. It's the right call by the FIA, and a particularly stupid move by LH/McLaren.

Cutting a corner and then dropping back in the tow/falling into a better line/maintaining your momentum to help overtake thereafter and calling it fair is about as obvious as stalling your car in the dying seconds of qualifying on a tight track and bringing an early end to the session after you've P1'd.

IT is clear that ferrari is getting helped by the fia, but some fans still cant believe wile it is clear. It is 100% unfair and an racing accident, tell me what hamilton had to do else. He couldnt do anything else, or he would hit KR car. And you say let the racing do the talking, it was a racing accident but some fools start complaining because ferrari got owned and they didnt win. LH didnt break the rules and he did like he should. the rules state; "When you cut the track by accident and gained a position by that you should give back that position." excactly like lh did, the rules dont state that you arent allowed to get a tow from the car after he gave the pos back.

to me, you all beat a dead horse. if the rules don't specify, there was a precedent set in 2005. Is that clear enough for you?

[CMSMJ1]

You can only use the track for racing. You cannot use an off-track excursion to get in tow, get closer to, align yourself for overtaking. It's strictly forbidden.

The main point IMO is that Lewis did not line anything up after the chicane - he was already ahead of Kimi. He gave up his own momentum by lifting off and then made a solid outbrake on Kimi.

Lewis did not have an advantage from cutting the corner as he had to drop his own on track speed. How is that an advantage?

Kimi made a slightly agressive "double move" in his defence of the corner too.

This was a nothing event made into a huge issue.

[JamesW]

Does that mean Charlie reported them? After giving them the all clear?

I can't see who else could have considering the way the rules are written. If he didn't, and I'm sure we'll come to know shortly enough, then it is obviously invalid. If he did, then it is obviously unfair.

...

So this is the section that is being used to cover Hamilton's actions:
30.3 a) During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the
provisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits.

Surely the same applies to KR running for hundreds of metres on the run-off area! And to Massa overtaking on the grass last year in Japan. Lewis yielded position, and so was obviously slower than KR at some point. For the non-physicists, and I suspect on a site such as this that isn't many of you, that means less momentum considering the cars weigh much the same. Kimi's Ferrari just couldn't brake as well as Lewis's McLaren in those conditions. This made him a sitting duck on any corner, and Lewis took him at the first opportunity. If Charlie had said that was a bit dodgy then he would have had him at the very next corner - he was obviously far superior in those conditions.

[Ciro Pabón]

Guys, I've just edited a dozen posts in this thread. It's Sunday and, believe me, I have other things to do.

If you really, really, really have to swear, please insult each other in PMs.

[nae]

PM sent

good effort Ciro

cheers

[nae]

another unbiased view

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20740.html

in responce to

'penatlies in order of severity'

looked quiet hard and cant see and 10K fine for the life of me

GP.com is far from unbiased, it's printable toilet paper and not much more. All you can draw out of that drivel is that if KR did overtake under yellows or use traction to a place advantage, then I hope he gets a 10 place penalty next round. But the article's neatly evaded what the penalty's about, and that's "did LH break the rules?" It's certainly not clear that he didn't.

Unsafe release from the pitstop doesn't constitute an incident able to be penalised under articles 16.2/3 (driving incidents).

you cant spot sarcasm ?
there isnt a sarcasm flag in html or bb code so i tried to make it as clear as i could

epic fail in one of our posts


oh and i forgot that massa was walking out the pits and not driving at the time

[andartop]

as a red fan i m a bit disappointed to see massa win this way, i d much rather things were clear.
on the other hand, after what happened last year McLaren should expect to be in the spotlight on every single corner of every single race. they should expect to get the harshest possible penalty for the minutest of mistakes, in every single corner of every single race. and this is what they get.

[nae]

as a red fan i m a bit disappointed to see massa win this way, i d much rather things were clear.
on the other hand, after what happened last year McLaren should expect to be in the spotlight on every single corner of every single race. they should expect to get the harshest possible penalty for the minutest of mistakes, in every single corner of every single race. and this is what they get.

why ?

in the interests of fairness ?

[Project Four]

Now that I have taken onboard what has happened, and reframed from making a rash post before I have cooled down. I would like to say that I have been enjoying the season so far especially after all of the crap last year. The racing has been excellent and we are now looking forward to a close fight all the way to the end of the year and aside from some dubious decisions (to name one Massa Valencia) it has being pretty fair.

The last few laps today were brilliant, edge of seat stuff, just what we need to bring more fans into F1.

But, the decision today has spoilt everything, it must be one of the worst decision ever, alongside with the Monza Alonso penalty. It seems that every year one team is unduly favoured against all other’s especially when they don’t have the outright pace to win the championship on their own.

Talking, about fairness and unbiased decisions and to justify the ground for the argument that the FIA stands for Ferrari International Assistance, look back to Hungary 2006 and Michael Schumacher cutting the chicane, for numerous laps, and not yielding position and not getting any penalties. I cannot see how what Hamilton did was anywhere near what Schumacher did and got away with, especially as Hamilton did lift and give the place back, it was not like he actually went off road to gain the place. He was racing with Raikkonen.

If this season is fair and not biased in the favour of one team, I will look forward to Raikkonen receiving a 25sec penalty or grid demotion for him gain speed to overtake Hamilton by also going off-track. But going on what has happened in the past I bet he will get at the most a 10K fine.

As Alonso has said this is not a sport anymore, I am now going to bed and going to sleep on this and I really think I have had enough of it.

[SZ]

epic fail in one of our posts

=D> i'll wear that... should have read it properly.

[nae]

epic fail in one of our posts

=D> i'll wear that... should have read it properly.

its so hard to get humour or sarcasm across in threads where emotion
is to the fore

fair play and (with me at least) assume i am trying to be funny / sarcastic

[andartop]

why ?

in the interests of fairness ?

nope, as revenge! so as to show you cannot mess up with the rules and expect to get away with it. look at where Michelin are now after that screwup in Indianapolis...

[nae]

revenge is fair right enough

rolls eyes