Belgian GP 2008

[Moanlower]

Fact is that Lewis gained advantage by getting under Kimi's rear wing after the chicane which wasn't possible if he had taken the chicane correctly.

It's a shame the penalty came after the race was finished but the incident happened at the final stages of the race. --- happens ..

Lewis already had something similar with Vettel. It's getting time that he learns to follow the rules and sanctions properly.

And Kimi screwed it up again by making a mistake Lewis would have made last year.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Yes but if he had gone straight on, modbaraban, he would have crashed straight into the side of Kimi.

Have a look at the picture again.

How can those two cars crash if the move in the same direction? I mean Hamilton didn't just cut the track straight away, but he actually managed to slow the car down enough to avoid contact. And while still having 1 rear wheel on the track and still facing the right direction he took the decision to change direction and go the shorter way. Look at the front wheels.

The photo suggests Lewis could just follow Kimi into the last turn.

You see that green thing, that's a very very high curb, you can't drive over those in a Formula 1 car Yeah yeah yeah he's not quite there yet and it looks like there's room to get back on track by now, but F1 cars have a poor turning circle and he's not stationary he's already moving forward at a fair amount of speed... Basically he took the "escape route" and once he'd done that he had to commit to it because of the nature of the curbs on that corner. It's marginal if he did break the rules and if that's the FIAs ruling then fine! The penalty is still far too strong.

In Valencia after the race when they said there was an investigation I guess part of me was hoping for Massa to get a penalty. BUT when I saw there was a fine instead I thought maybe they had done that to avoid changing the race result after the race had finished and the trophies had been handed out, and not to interfere with the championship... I guess that wasn't the case because they've done exactly that in Spa. Anyway I digress...

modbaraban - You beleive that Lewis was in the wrong, that's fine. But do you believe that the penalty he received was fair, the correct penalty and applied in the correct way? Should a penalty have been applied at the next race instead?

[lebesset]

to all the other ex F1 followers like me , looks like MotoGP is going to be even better !!!
not just the riders allowed to race , but as well as pedrosa getting the tyres he wants , almost certain melandri is going to ducati

can't wait

ps
as is well known , alan donnelly ,the permanent F1 steward , won his court case about the $11 million dollars which the FIA paid to his company ...he still gives as 2 of his 3 publicity blubs comments from max and bernie ; but I notice that ferrari no longer appears as one of his customers ..or did I imagine it was ever there ?

pps as you know acer sponsor ferrari , and I have a new laptop on order from them ...or I did until this morning when I contacted the supplier and changed the order to an HP

[SZ]

am i the only one that think FIA is picking on McLaren?
the rule said you have to let the car pass.
Hamilton did lift off the throttle.
he then smartly got back into the slip stream of kimi.
made the most out of it and out-brake kimi at the next corner.
i cant see any problem with that to be honest.

As he was off track when he did most of what I've highlighted, that's the bit that contravenes the regulations. You can only use the track for racing. You can't do this off the track, which he did.

Amazing that many of you choose to colour this issue with other stuff.

It remains very unfortunate that a good race from LH is coloured with this but he+team are not unaware of the racing regulations.

[Chaparral]

Seems like a wonderful cunning stunt (publicity wise) from those who head this bollocks they call F1 - this 'show' has nothing to do with racing or the competing equally in a sport - WWE now has more credibility - Ecclestone would be lapping this publicity and furour around it right up - pity we all just didnt ignore it, said nothing and turned off our TV sets for the next few rounds - he will get the message loud and clear as that hurts his hip pocket ultimately - its just a joke full stop.

[CMSMJ1]

am i the only one that think FIA is picking on McLaren?
the rule said you have to let the car pass.
Hamilton did lift off the throttle.
he then smartly got back into the slip stream of kimi.
made the most out of it and out-brake kimi at the next corner.
i cant see any problem with that to be honest.

As he was off track when he did most of what I've highlighted, that's the bit that contravenes the regulations. You can only use the track for racing. You can't do this off the track, which he did.

Amazing that many of you choose to colour this issue with other stuff.

It remains very unfortunate that a good race from LH is coloured with this but he+team are not unaware of the racing regulations.

No..Lewis was on the track in front of Kimi and lifted on the start finish straight. He could have crossed the line in the lead..had he not allowed Kimi passed him by bleeding off a bit of throttle.

Kimi had such poor braking performance that he would have been mugged into La Source either way.

[Tehillim]

A fantastic race spoiled by a poor decision by the stewards. It would have been so easy for Hamilton to sit back and allow Raikkonen to take first, knowing that beating Massa was the goal, instead we were treated to some balls out racing. I can't believe the FIA want to stamp down on this kind of thing!

Hamilton took the escape road when Raikkonen squeezed him over the curbs, then he slowed to allow Raikkonen back through, giving him a full car's length advantage and a speed advantage into La Source. The reason Hamilton overtook Raikkonen is because he out-braked him into the corner (probably because the latter was being a little too cute zig-zagging into the corner). Fair but forceful from both drivers, how can they penalise that?

[Tehillim]

Yes but if he had gone straight on, modbaraban, he would have crashed straight into the side of Kimi.

Have a look at the picture again.

How can those two cars crash if the move in the same direction? I mean Hamilton didn't just cut the track straight away, but he actually managed to slow the car down enough to avoid contact. And while still having 1 rear wheel on the track and still facing the right direction he took the decision to change direction and go the shorter way. Look at the front wheels.

The photo suggests Lewis could just follow Kimi into the last turn.

Stills can be very misleading, here it is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzKMyFCaZy0

I don't entirely agree with the captions, but you can clearly see the cars are overlapped and Hamilton is pushed onto the curbs, he cuts the chicane to avoid a collision - which is not a foul as long as he gives the place back, which he did immediately afterwards. Your still shows the gap after Hamilton commits to cutting the chicane.

[axle]

The photo is taken at the right angle for people to view clear air between the cars, however if you straightened the photo angle up to be side on it would be quite different.

[axle]

The photo is taken at the right angle for people to view clear air between the cars, however if you straightened the photo angle up to be side on it would be quite different.

[andartop]

firstly, i do think this penalty was a bit harsh. that said, LH did happen to be penalised for exactly the same reason earlier this year, so he should have known better and be more careful.
as a ferrari fan i am infuriated at the FIA with the way they handle things. if they believe someone needs to be punished at such a crucial stage of the race then they should do so immediately as such a decision can affect the race outcome. in this particular example, had hamilton's penalty been announced immediately, kimi might have backed off and manage to finish the race securing a ferrari 1-2. i m not the one who likes to draw conclusions based on "ifs", but i think this is a strong point to be made.
secondly, and as important, if they think someone has to be penalised they should make it immediately clear as to why this driver is being penalised and release all the data based on which they took this decision. if the penalty is questionable, then they should immediately release a statement backing their decision. thus, their decisions would be more clear, and ferrari's name and image would not be damaged by all the doubts of all the people who have a different opinion. already, last year's championship has been forever stained, and it looks like the same might happen with this year's championship. obviously ferrari is loosing image by winning championships over doubts about "fairplay".
of course it all comes down to the FIA, who want to have everything. so, after last years events, instead of excluding McLaren and its drivers from the 2007 and 2008 championships as they should have based on the severity of their misconduct, they chose not to risk loosing all the McLaren fans thus allowing McLaren to keep racing but holding a grudge on them!!! so, as is obvious this year, McLaren are kind of racing "under conditions". the slightest doubt over a breach of rules and they get the harshest penalty, whereas others would have probably just got away with it with a slap in the hand. makes sense, but it isn't fair.
what i m tryin to say is that the FIA are not backing ferrari, they just bear a grudge on McLaren. it only happens that ferrari AND BMW benefit from this situation as they are Macca's closest rivals.
what should have been done would be to not allow them to race in the first place. F1 has survived the loss of Senna and Schumi, so i think it would definitely have survived without McLaren. In the end, if McLaren really believe the championship is not fair and they cannot win it since the FIA is against them, then they might as well withdraw from it now and save lots of money. and image.

[axle]

It's nice to read that Lauda thinks it was the wrong decision.

And other commentators are suggesting that there is no point racing and wanting to win as it's frowned upon, after all you might mess up the nice advertising hoarding you're driving

I'm equally dispondant over what I've read about Pantano in GP2...being banned from race 2 for a simple racing incident when trying to claw his way up the field...FFS...it really seems like they don't like people trying to win. After if he can be banned for out braking himself then I guess Kimi should have been banned from the next race after Monaco after all that would have been in the public interest, not!

[bazanaius]

in this particular example, had hamilton's penalty been announced immediately, kimi might have backed off and manage to finish the race securing a ferrari 1-2. i m not the one who likes to draw conclusions based on "ifs", but i think this is a strong point to be made.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and for me confirms that this method of policing the sport doesn't work in its own interests. No matter which 'side' you're on, this situation has done nothing but harm F1 as a sport.

I have my opinions on the LH situation, but unfortunately I don't make the decisions. What I do know however is how my opinion of the race very quickly changed after I heard the announcement about LH penalty. Until that moment it had been one of excitement - the race was awesome! Even the fairly overtaking-bare middle section of the race was made very enjoyable by the phenomenal circuit that was Spa. Certainly an indication that it is not just the cars which must be reviewed if there is to be exciting racing again.

the first 4 laps, and the last 4 laps were some of the best I've ever seen in F1, even watching races from before I was born! Two drivers fighting it out for position, at the ragged edge in changing conditions, the difference in machinery and driving style amplified and the sheer skill of both drivers in avoiding Nakajima was astounding.

To have this feeling thoroughly soured by an after-race decision is a shame for the sport. For now the race will not be remembered as the great race it was, but for this aftermath. Once again F1 is not about the racing.

This can only do the FIA and the sport harm - if you want people to watch, don't belittle the race spectacle by just deciding the outcome afterwards! You might as well just publish results calculated by a random number generator. It would be just as contrived.

[WhiteBlue]

The FIA have announced that they will set the date for the appeal court as soon as possible. Now we need McLaren to lodge their appeal quickly. They have a week according to the regulations but I hope they will be quicker.

I also read the reasoning of the stewards for the penalty. It is basically a zero information as they just talk about the duty of the driver to remain on track. But what is a driver supposed to do when he is driven off the track by a competitor as it was clearly the case here. If anybody was at fault for the incident in the first place it was Kimi by not giving enough place for Hamilton.

For the FIA to lock the barn door after the horse has bolted makes no sense. If they wanted to keep drivers off the run offs they should have started to take action a year ago when we saw the sweeze out at the start in La Source. I thought then it wasn't ok to run someone off the track onto the run off but apparently the FIA was happy with the drivers driving each other off track as long as there was tarmack run off available.

As some people have pointed out Kimi deliberately left the track at the new Pouhon tarmack run off to gain an advantage. That wasn't penalised. One should ask if incidents like that should not be inhibited by obstacles that are no danger to the driver but are likely to cause damage if they are not avoided. This could make the tarmack run offs less attractive and negate the advantage of cutting the corner. The obstacles should be just solid enough to cause light damage to the car like breaking the front wing. If safety foam barriers are fixed with a shear bolt that breaks at low force that could be achieved.

[Rob W]

Kimi also passed Hamilton under waved yellow flags it turns out now - worthy of a grid demotion in the next race.

...One should ask if incidents like that should not be inhibited by obstacles that are no danger to the driver but are likely to cause damage if they are not avoided.

This isn't very plausible as it would only take one fluke accident or injury resulting from it for the entire idea to be scrapped. I think something like "a car which leaves the track entirely onto run-off tarmac must activate the pit-lane speed limiter for 2 seconds before continuing.

This way it wouldn't ruin a driver's race completely and the technology is already present.

R