Belgian GP 2008

[Shaddock]

Kimi passing Lewis for the second time this lap and the Williams under a yellow flag.

OMG!

Is this the first race you have ever seen?

I'm not a Ferrari fan, mind you.

You mentioned Kimi overtaking McLaren and Williams under yellow

1. The Williams car spun off causing the yellow, so it wasn't racing, and it also was being lapped.




As you can see from the photo, the Williams is recovering to the track at the start of the corner (right hander). When Kimi overtakes (even if lapping) it is at the end of the next corner (left hander) when the Williams is up to speed and racing and still under yellow flags.

[nae]

for a balance view read what italian press is saying.

LOL [-X

you cant slag of a British paper for being partisan then proffer the Italians as not

url ?

[ben_watkins]

very one sided with sprinkles of subjectivity. But you have to realise that he is writing for a british paper, he has to be on LH side to sell issues.

for a balance view read what italian press is saying.

If your point is that Italian papers give well balanced, un-Ferrari biased copy on contetious F1 issues, then surely so do British papers give an un-McLaren/LH biased view.

However, if your point is that national papers will be biased towards their national sides, in order to sell, then your point above is about as water tight as a chocolate tea pot!

[SZ]

Look, as an F1 fan, I'm disappointed in LH+McLaren. The sport doesn't need the ambiguity, particularly when he'd have had plenty of opportunities to overtake later on. Why race as if you're above the law? Particularly if you really, really believe the FIA to be inconsistent? It's stupid. I don't want any team to win like this and I'm disappointed in those that allowed it to happen - and it didn't start with the inconsistency of the FIA or a certain red team.

You'll note that McLaren might have lodged an appeal but things are quiet on the LH front. Telling.

The FIA can't put a stop to marginal calls. The rules are clear (more so to LH - who's gotten done on this one once in the last year already). Break 'em at your own risk.

nae, read the rules carefully. It's not about giving the place back. You're reading this very selectively if you're still pushing that much.

Senna broke plenty of rules. As stated, he was still brilliant. As did/were/are MS, and possibly one day LH (he's certainly on the way).

whoohoo has it right. The precedent has to stick. Did KR overtake under yellows? You can't argue LH shouldn't have gotten done for breaking rules, you can well argue KR should have if he did overtake on yellows.

[timbo]

However, if your point is that national papers will be biased towards their national sides, in order to sell, then your point above is about as water tight as a chocolate tea pot!

Don't overthink that.
He said "for a balance (you should) view"
not
"for a balance(d) view".
Truth lies in between.
Problem with LH is that majority of F1 related media is british.

[DaveKillens]

What a wonderful race, and on a fantastic track. The entire nation of Belgium has to be congratulated for hosting this Formula One race on such a great track. Now, that's racing, and entertainment. Yea, politics and controversy followed after the checkered flag flew, but then again, this old fart has seen this kind of crap many times before. Dayum, I hate it when the outcome is decided at any place apart from on the track. Maybe instead of referring to the sport as "Formula One Racing", it should be named "Formula One Controversy (and sometimes racing)."
Many drivers drove what can be considered fantastic performances. Such as Hamilton, Kimi, Bordais, Vettel, to name just a few. Of course the wet conditions at the start mixed things up a lot, and at the end, the rain played havoc with everyone. I bet Quick Nick would happily trade all those seconds for just one win... he has earned the nickname of "Bridesmaid".
My wife, who is 100% disinterested in racing even was captured by all the drama and action of those last three laps... that's how mesmerizing it was.
I don't want to dwell on the negatives, because what happened on this track was a wonderful thing to witness. Look back on this race and take all the wonderful positive things it produced. Great racing, wonderful drama, and so much to smile about.

[ben_watkins]

Don't overthink that.
He said "for a balance (you should) view"
not
"for a balance(d) view".
Truth lies in between.
Problem with LH is that majority of F1 related media is british.

I think you are wrong. Look at what he/she said. I've repeated it below for you..

for a balance view read what italian press is saying.

It's nothing like how you try to interpret it.

The problem with F1 is that the vast majority of teams are based on racing motor cars on track. The FIA isn't.

[myurr]

Look, as an F1 fan, I'm disappointed in LH+McLaren. The sport doesn't need the ambiguity, particularly when he'd have had plenty of opportunities to overtake later on. Why race as if you're above the law? Particularly if you really, really believe the FIA to be inconsistent? It's stupid. I don't want any team to win like this and I'm disappointed in those that allowed it to happen - and it didn't start with the inconsistency of the FIA or a certain red team.

You'll note that McLaren might have lodged an appeal but things are quiet on the LH front. Telling.

The FIA can't put a stop to marginal calls. The rules are clear (more so to LH - who's gotten done on this one once in the last year already). Break 'em at your own risk.

nae, read the rules carefully. It's not about giving the place back. You're reading this very selectively if you're still pushing that much.

Senna broke plenty of rules. As stated, he was still brilliant. As did/were/are MS, and possibly one day LH (he's certainly on the way).

whoohoo has it right. The precedent has to stick. Did KR overtake under yellows? You can't argue LH shouldn't have gotten done for breaking rules, you can well argue KR should have if he did overtake on yellows.

I'd argue that you were being just as biased in the opposite direction. Were you leading the charge for Massa to be punished in the last race? Do you think that the application of a fine in that instance was correct, given that the rules explicitly say that the offense that Massa was found guilty of requires the same punishment as Lewis's infraction?

And to say you're disappointed in LH is to be beyond bizarre. 99% of people watching that race in the last couple of laps were either on the edge of their seat or standing, soaking up the thrills and spills of two great drivers actually battling it out for a change. You must have been the only one sat there quietly saying over and over "I'm so disappointed in Lewis... I'm so disappointed in Lewis..."

The world is up in arms, many great racing drivers and journalists are gob smacked, and the image of the sport has been dragged through the gutter by the actions of the FIA. Whilst to you it is clear that Lewis blatantly and deliberately broke the rules and should be punished, the rest of the world cannot see any infraction or need for punishment.

[Crabbia]

with regards to the press thing, the point i'm trying to make is they are both partisan, and the truth lies in between. thats why its such a marginal call.

Articles like that bring nothing new to the discussion, only a new point of veiw( that of the writer) and if you want the opposing point of veiw read the italian papers.

[Belatti]

The sport doesn't need the ambiguity, particularly when he'd have had plenty of opportunities to overtake later on.

Plenty of opportunities to overtake later on? So what kind of driver do you want him to be? The Barrichello one?
Nahh, 2 laps to go, there is time, maybe he will make a mistake, I´ll sit and wait...


You can´t Blame Lewis. He is a racer, thats what he does: race. He has winning hunger. Apart from that: he clearly let Kimi pass and attacked him on THE NEXT curve.

And I repeat: if you use these kind of chicanes, these things will happen. Build Monza 1996 like chicanes, the one who misses it: OUT!

Dave: you are right, the race was great!

[axle]

Well the appeal is official.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70442
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70443

Lets just wait and see eh

Chill people.

[bizadfar]

Kimi passing Lewis for the second time this lap and the Williams under a yellow flag.

OMG!

Is this the first race you have ever seen?

I didn't watch it through rose (or scarlett) tinted glasses.



Kimi missed this corner, these things happen in the wet. Kimi run's into the back of the Force India at Monaco, again in the wet. No I don't think any of these incidents deserved any intervention by the stewards. Allowances need to be made when racing hard in difficult conditions.

The facts are the facts. Lewis was a close behind Kimi going into the Bus Stop and he was going into La Source. No advantage no disadvantage.

Definitely your first race.

MS didnt finish that race. That event occured 3 laps before his track rod broke so he didnt finish. thats why no action was taken. unless you want him to be docked points.

If you dont wanna see that its irrelevant i'll argue with you on your shameless lack of facts in your post. i can also go dig up little u tube clips and pollute an otherwise decent argument. keep it to the point please.

Classified 8th After Kubica DQ. 1 point...

[nae]

with regards to the press thing, the point i'm trying to make is they are both partisan, and the truth lies in between. thats why its such a marginal call.

Articles like that bring nothing new to the discussion, only a new point of veiw( that of the writer) and if you want the opposing point of veiw read the italian papers.

fair point I mis-interpreted your meaning

now if only i could read italian

None of the press or indeed any of the posters can by there very nature be non partisan, they can ( i try to) attempt to be but even in the doing so cannot deny
there history / beliefs / support etc

there will always be at least 2 sides to any incident
and a corresponding view in the press somewhere

as for 'the rules' and my reading of them
i shall say one thing
they are written in English and are open to interpretation
and the reason english is used is becuase it is the most ambiguous language
there is for rules and laws

what i saw was a marginal call
LH was in front pre turn in and could be said to have the corner
KR in taking the corner left no room for LH thus winning the corner back
LH avoided an avoidable accident (unlike HK who got a drive through )
LH returned the advantage to KR to more than the pre turn in situation
LH retook KR at the next corner

it was in all intents and purposes a racing incident

any talk of the rest of the race is irrelevant

I do wonder what the stewards would need for the infraction to have been negated
LH to stop get out and run round the car 3 times ?

flame away as its the last i am going to say on the matter until the appeal is rejected on a technicality

[DaveKillens]

And exactly who benefits from this controversial decision? The puppet master, Bernie. The title race has closed up, and more likely, TV attendance will increase for the remainder of the season.

[Moanlower]

You can´t Blame Lewis. He is a racer, thats what he does: race. He has winning hunger. Apart from that: he clearly let Kimi pass and attacked him on THE NEXT curve.

Dave: you are right, the race was great!

Belatti: You are wrong.

There are more drivers on the grid with a hunger to win. It just has to be done within the rules, no matter how hungry you are..

He did let Kimi pass BUT gained an advantage by cutting by cutting the chicane. He didn't back off enough and simply stayed under Kimi's wing which wasn't possible if he took the chicane correctly.
Yes, Lewis was way faster,(another reason why he should have waited to overtake) and he got very little advantage with slipstreaming.. So what ? He was underneath kimi's rear wing which made it easier for Lewis to outbrake him.

A quote by massa:

He said the issue has often been discussed in driving briefings.

"It has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained," Massa said.

"If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it."