2019 Renault F1 Team

[carisi2k]

Daniel kept getting held up in the last sector and wasn't able to put in an appropriate time to truly have a comparison but just to be sure the RS19 looks like a slug. Renault will not be keeping that fourth position if this keeps up.

[GhostF1]

Abiteboul unhappy with Toro Rosso’s performance

Abiteboul told Sky the rise of ‘B-team’ arrangements is “a problem” when asked by Sky.

“Just look at Toro Rosso, who in my opinion are likely to be the team to beat as far as we’re concerned for the start of the season given where we are,” said Abiteboul.

“Toro Rosso had no technical director for most of last season. It’s very clear what went on. So we don’t even need a technical director to produce what is a very competitive car. For us that’s a problem.”

The Renault boss said if F1 bosses do not restrict the opportunities for ‘B teams’ under new regulations being worked on for 2021, no new manufacturer teams will be able to enter the sport.

“For more there was a before and after Haas that has created a precedent. I’m not challenging, but I’m just saying how do we move forward for teams like us, like McLaren, like Williams?

“But also how does a manufacturer that’s not currently in Formula 1 that wants to be in Formula 1, how is it they will seriously contemplate reaching Formula 1 if that’s not possible to win without a B-team?

“For us that’s something we have to consider for the discussion for 2021. For ’19 and ’20 that’s gone now, we are gone with that type of set-up. But for 2021 I hope everyone realises how serious a question it is.”

Evidence that Cyril is only happy when there is something to complain about. This shouldn't affect his teams ability to improve...

[Jambier]

This should not be an issue for a work team like Renault.

But I will definitely understand if Williams, McLaren, Racing point complain about it.

I'm not sure that this is good for F1 to have 6 Ferrari and 4 Red Bull on the grid

[PowerandtheGlory]

I think it is not an issue if a Team like HAAS can buy every part they possibly can from Ferrari. This is nothing new for F1 - they have been teams for years and years ago running cars that were either last years car from another team or an engine, i remember 1 year the Benetton and Ligier looked the same except for a paintjob, but in the modern era its never been that a team could have a test team for the main team. Teams have always had to build car, that's the philosophy of F1 over the years. The Genie is out of the bottle in many ways now, but the real problem is this 'B' team philosophy.. which RB started with TR in my opinion in the modern age - effectively the B team is a test-bed for your main team - extra mileage for engine testing, and you can share parts such as gearboxes and so-on. But i feel the teams should not be used as a sacrifice for the bigger teams like TR has said this year, i think this is wrong. Every team should race for itself as it in the spirit of the sport. We don't want a field full of cars with loyalty to bigger teams.. If we take a Football example....... It would be like Man Utd buying Burnley and then when Man Utd played Burnley they would say 'let us win' sacrifice yourself for us because we are in a battle with Man city.. Man Utd can loan players to Burnley (like F1 team sell engines, place young drivers Etc) and stuff like that, but never should 1 team be sacrificed for another. It's not sporting. I like Haas's idea, but TR were Minardi before, a proud little team that raced with no money and many top drivers started there.. now they are just engine testers for RB.. that's not right

[Capharol]

Abiteboul unhappy with Toro Rosso’s performance

Abiteboul told Sky the rise of ‘B-team’ arrangements is “a problem” when asked by Sky.

“Just look at Toro Rosso, who in my opinion are likely to be the team to beat as far as we’re concerned for the start of the season given where we are,” said Abiteboul.

“Toro Rosso had no technical director for most of last season. It’s very clear what went on. So we don’t even need a technical director to produce what is a very competitive car. For us that’s a problem.”

The Renault boss said if F1 bosses do not restrict the opportunities for ‘B teams’ under new regulations being worked on for 2021, no new manufacturer teams will be able to enter the sport.

“For more there was a before and after Haas that has created a precedent. I’m not challenging, but I’m just saying how do we move forward for teams like us, like McLaren, like Williams?

“But also how does a manufacturer that’s not currently in Formula 1 that wants to be in Formula 1, how is it they will seriously contemplate reaching Formula 1 if that’s not possible to win without a B-team?

“For us that’s something we have to consider for the discussion for 2021. For ’19 and ’20 that’s gone now, we are gone with that type of set-up. But for 2021 I hope everyone realises how serious a question it is.”

alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry

because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years

[Jambier]

Abiteboul unhappy with Toro Rosso’s performance

Abiteboul told Sky the rise of ‘B-team’ arrangements is “a problem” when asked by Sky.

“Just look at Toro Rosso, who in my opinion are likely to be the team to beat as far as we’re concerned for the start of the season given where we are,” said Abiteboul.

“Toro Rosso had no technical director for most of last season. It’s very clear what went on. So we don’t even need a technical director to produce what is a very competitive car. For us that’s a problem.”

The Renault boss said if F1 bosses do not restrict the opportunities for ‘B teams’ under new regulations being worked on for 2021, no new manufacturer teams will be able to enter the sport.

“For more there was a before and after Haas that has created a precedent. I’m not challenging, but I’m just saying how do we move forward for teams like us, like McLaren, like Williams?

“But also how does a manufacturer that’s not currently in Formula 1 that wants to be in Formula 1, how is it they will seriously contemplate reaching Formula 1 if that’s not possible to win without a B-team?

“For us that’s something we have to consider for the discussion for 2021. For ’19 and ’20 that’s gone now, we are gone with that type of set-up. But for 2021 I hope everyone realises how serious a question it is.”

alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry

because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years

I think even Renault's fan don't really like Abiteboul to be honnest

- I agree that it should not be an issue for a proper works team

- But I'm sure that it is a bad thing to have B teams for the future. Even worse if you intend to set a budget cap

[Capharol]

Abiteboul unhappy with Toro Rosso’s performance

alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry

because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years

I think even Renault's fan don't really like Abiteboul to be honnest

- I agree that it should not be an issue for a proper works team

- But I'm sure that it is a bad thing to have B teams for the future. Even worse if you intend to set a budget cap

on the 1. point i can't say (tbh i am not a fan of him) 2. point i agree with you
on 3rd point what shall be done about that.... IF, and thats a big fat IF, they should decide TR isn't allowed to be a satellite Team of Red Bull, what do you think RB (Mateschitz) would do? he might pull out and suddenly F1 hasn't got 10 (or 12) teams but only 8 or 9 teams....
there is no where said in the FIA rules a team needs a TD, the parts stuff is regulated but then start to look at Haas or Alfa to.

Again all i see Cyril do is crying about others instead of just stop talking and get yourself a better car, this is what only help, not the moaning of what others do or doesn't do

[dren]

He is using it as motivation to change the 2021 rules to his benefit.

[Phil]

alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry

because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years

Evidently, you didn't get the gist of what Renault/Cyril are complaining about. I'll help you out; They are complaining that teams like Ferrari have B-team(s) (Haas and Sauber) that enables them to raise their own performance but also strengthens the B-teams themselves. Same applies to RedBull with two dedicated teams and to a lesser degree (at this point) for Mercedes with Racing-Point and Williams.

Renault on the other hand are now facing a more difficult task at competing with the top3 teams yet at the same time, because of the intel sharing between main-team and B-team(s), the "midfield" is much stronger. In other words; Renault are struggling to compete against these B-teams.

Renault does not have a B-team in McLaren. They are facing the immense task of having to poor more money and resources into the sport to remain competitive. However money/resources are not an infinite resource and at this rate, the sport will probably face problems to retain these teams in the long run if this trend continues.

The irony of course is that the privateers (the last of their kind anyway; e.g. Sauber, Williams, McLaren, Racing-Point) are complaining about it becoming a manufacturer controlled sport, while one of the manufacturer is now complaining about the larger manufacturers building out their advantage by using/allying themselves with B-teams that are also strengthening the B-teams themselves (through part & intel sharing).


PS: Renault came back into F1 before Haas and this trend started.

[Capharol]

alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry

because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years

Evidently, you didn't get the gist of what Renault/Cyril are complaining about. I'll help you out; They are complaining that teams like Ferrari have B-team(s) (Haas and Sauber) that enables them to raise their own performance but also strengthens the B-teams themselves. Same applies to RedBull with two dedicated teams and to a lesser degree (at this point) for Mercedes with Racing-Point and Williams.

Renault on the other hand are now facing a more difficult task at competing with the top3 teams yet at the same time, because of the intel sharing between main-team and B-team(s), the "midfield" is much stronger. In other words; Renault are struggling to compete against these B-teams.

Renault does not have a B-team in McLaren. They are facing the immense task of having to poor more money and resources into the sport to remain competitive. However money/resources are not an infinite resource and at this rate, the sport will probably face problems to retain these teams in the long run if this trend continues.

The irony of course is that the privateers (the last of their kind anyway; e.g. Sauber, Williams, McLaren, Racing-Point) are complaining about it becoming a manufacturer controlled sport, while one of the manufacturer is now complaining about the larger manufacturers building out their advantage by using/allying themselves with B-teams that are also strengthening the B-teams themselves (through part & intel sharing).


PS: Renault came back into F1 before Haas and this trend started.

Phil i understood the complained completly, but what I am saying is instead of moaning (like he does in the last few years) he should start find solutions, put his "moaning-energy" into something more productiv, which helps Renault.

[PhillipM]

This is productive, and helps Renault, because if it keeps going like this you're just going to have a series of Ferrari, and 6 daughter teams built off last years ferrari.

[Capharol]

This is productive, and helps Renault, because if it keeps going like this you're just going to have a series of Ferrari, and 6 daughter teams built off last years ferrari.

then what stops them for doing exactly the same?, why not working closer with McLaren....
hasn't they had that benefit aswell on the egnine side (i know it isn't exactly the same, but still.... they didn't complained back then) as the provide 3 teams with there engine....

[Big Tea]

So what rule is preventing Renault getting a junior team?

[Phil]

then what stops them for doing exactly the same?, why not working closer with McLaren....
hasn't they had that benefit aswell on the egnine side (i know it isn't exactly the same, but still.... they didn't complained back then) as the provide 3 teams with there engine....

Because McLaren doesn't want to, because McLaren wants to win themselves, because McLaren has their own large aero department and staff, as well as resources and don't want to be a pawn?

Seriously, Haas is the only exception here of a team so small, that they came in and buying everything off Ferrari as far as the rules allow it. All the other teams, such as Williams, Sauber (Alfa), Racing Point are large enough and have their own proprietary designs and staff. Comparing the likes of Haas to McLaren or any other privateer team is not possible and as far as this sport goes pretty unprecedented.

And as for funding your own junior team (Haas2) - who? Where? At what cost?

[Big Tea]

then what stops them for doing exactly the same?, why not working closer with McLaren....
hasn't they had that benefit aswell on the egnine side (i know it isn't exactly the same, but still.... they didn't complained back then) as the provide 3 teams with there engine....

Because McLaren doesn't want to, because McLaren wants to win themselves, because McLaren has their own large aero department and staff, as well as resources and don't want to be a pawn?

Seriously, Haas is the only exception here of a team so small, that they came in and buying everything off Ferrari as far as the rules allow it. All the other teams, such as Williams, Sauber (Alfa), Racing Point are large enough and have their own proprietary designs and staff. Comparing the likes of Haas to McLaren or any other privateer team is not possible and as far as this sport goes pretty unprecedented.

And as for funding your own junior team (Haas2) - who? Where? At what cost?

But it is only unfair if they are prevented from doing it. If they can not afford to do it, it is not unfair, just inconvenient.