Evidence that Cyril is only happy when there is something to complain about. This shouldn't affect his teams ability to improve...Morteza wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 05:12Abiteboul unhappy with Toro Rosso’s performanceCyril Abiteboul wrote:Abiteboul told Sky the rise of ‘B-team’ arrangements is “a problem” when asked by Sky.
“Just look at Toro Rosso, who in my opinion are likely to be the team to beat as far as we’re concerned for the start of the season given where we are,” said Abiteboul.
“Toro Rosso had no technical director for most of last season. It’s very clear what went on. So we don’t even need a technical director to produce what is a very competitive car. For us that’s a problem.”
The Renault boss said if F1 bosses do not restrict the opportunities for ‘B teams’ under new regulations being worked on for 2021, no new manufacturer teams will be able to enter the sport.
“For more there was a before and after Haas that has created a precedent. I’m not challenging, but I’m just saying how do we move forward for teams like us, like McLaren, like Williams?
“But also how does a manufacturer that’s not currently in Formula 1 that wants to be in Formula 1, how is it they will seriously contemplate reaching Formula 1 if that’s not possible to win without a B-team?
“For us that’s something we have to consider for the discussion for 2021. For ’19 and ’20 that’s gone now, we are gone with that type of set-up. But for 2021 I hope everyone realises how serious a question it is.”
alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cryMorteza wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 05:12Abiteboul unhappy with Toro Rosso’s performanceCyril Abiteboul wrote:Abiteboul told Sky the rise of ‘B-team’ arrangements is “a problem” when asked by Sky.
“Just look at Toro Rosso, who in my opinion are likely to be the team to beat as far as we’re concerned for the start of the season given where we are,” said Abiteboul.
“Toro Rosso had no technical director for most of last season. It’s very clear what went on. So we don’t even need a technical director to produce what is a very competitive car. For us that’s a problem.”
The Renault boss said if F1 bosses do not restrict the opportunities for ‘B teams’ under new regulations being worked on for 2021, no new manufacturer teams will be able to enter the sport.
“For more there was a before and after Haas that has created a precedent. I’m not challenging, but I’m just saying how do we move forward for teams like us, like McLaren, like Williams?
“But also how does a manufacturer that’s not currently in Formula 1 that wants to be in Formula 1, how is it they will seriously contemplate reaching Formula 1 if that’s not possible to win without a B-team?
“For us that’s something we have to consider for the discussion for 2021. For ’19 and ’20 that’s gone now, we are gone with that type of set-up. But for 2021 I hope everyone realises how serious a question it is.”
I think even Renault's fan don't really like Abiteboul to be honnestCapharol wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 11:55alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cryMorteza wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 05:12Abiteboul unhappy with Toro Rosso’s performanceCyril Abiteboul wrote:Abiteboul told Sky the rise of ‘B-team’ arrangements is “a problem” when asked by Sky.
“Just look at Toro Rosso, who in my opinion are likely to be the team to beat as far as we’re concerned for the start of the season given where we are,” said Abiteboul.
“Toro Rosso had no technical director for most of last season. It’s very clear what went on. So we don’t even need a technical director to produce what is a very competitive car. For us that’s a problem.”
The Renault boss said if F1 bosses do not restrict the opportunities for ‘B teams’ under new regulations being worked on for 2021, no new manufacturer teams will be able to enter the sport.
“For more there was a before and after Haas that has created a precedent. I’m not challenging, but I’m just saying how do we move forward for teams like us, like McLaren, like Williams?
“But also how does a manufacturer that’s not currently in Formula 1 that wants to be in Formula 1, how is it they will seriously contemplate reaching Formula 1 if that’s not possible to win without a B-team?
“For us that’s something we have to consider for the discussion for 2021. For ’19 and ’20 that’s gone now, we are gone with that type of set-up. But for 2021 I hope everyone realises how serious a question it is.”
because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years
on the 1. point i can't say (tbh i am not a fan of him) 2. point i agree with youJambier wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 12:00I think even Renault's fan don't really like Abiteboul to be honnestCapharol wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 11:55alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry
because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years
- I agree that it should not be an issue for a proper works team
- But I'm sure that it is a bad thing to have B teams for the future. Even worse if you intend to set a budget cap
Evidently, you didn't get the gist of what Renault/Cyril are complaining about. I'll help you out; They are complaining that teams like Ferrari have B-team(s) (Haas and Sauber) that enables them to raise their own performance but also strengthens the B-teams themselves. Same applies to RedBull with two dedicated teams and to a lesser degree (at this point) for Mercedes with Racing-Point and Williams.Capharol wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 11:55alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry
because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years
Phil i understood the complained completly, but what I am saying is instead of moaning (like he does in the last few years) he should start find solutions, put his "moaning-energy" into something more productiv, which helps Renault.Phil wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 13:00Evidently, you didn't get the gist of what Renault/Cyril are complaining about. I'll help you out; They are complaining that teams like Ferrari have B-team(s) (Haas and Sauber) that enables them to raise their own performance but also strengthens the B-teams themselves. Same applies to RedBull with two dedicated teams and to a lesser degree (at this point) for Mercedes with Racing-Point and Williams.Capharol wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 11:55alll i read is...... cry, cry, cry, possible disadvantage for Renault, cry, cry, cry
because this is going on even before Renault was in F1, and suddenly now it's a bad thing?
i guess they now notice, they aren't as fast as they hoped to be.... so what do you do? point your finger to others
oh and before i forgett, i might get downvotes because Renault-Fans won't like to hear it but this is the way I see it, because this is what Cyril has done in last couple of years
Renault on the other hand are now facing a more difficult task at competing with the top3 teams yet at the same time, because of the intel sharing between main-team and B-team(s), the "midfield" is much stronger. In other words; Renault are struggling to compete against these B-teams.
Renault does not have a B-team in McLaren. They are facing the immense task of having to poor more money and resources into the sport to remain competitive. However money/resources are not an infinite resource and at this rate, the sport will probably face problems to retain these teams in the long run if this trend continues.
The irony of course is that the privateers (the last of their kind anyway; e.g. Sauber, Williams, McLaren, Racing-Point) are complaining about it becoming a manufacturer controlled sport, while one of the manufacturer is now complaining about the larger manufacturers building out their advantage by using/allying themselves with B-teams that are also strengthening the B-teams themselves (through part & intel sharing).
PS: Renault came back into F1 before Haas and this trend started.
then what stops them for doing exactly the same?, why not working closer with McLaren....
Because McLaren doesn't want to, because McLaren wants to win themselves, because McLaren has their own large aero department and staff, as well as resources and don't want to be a pawn?Capharol wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 15:15then what stops them for doing exactly the same?, why not working closer with McLaren....
hasn't they had that benefit aswell on the egnine side (i know it isn't exactly the same, but still.... they didn't complained back then) as the provide 3 teams with there engine....
But it is only unfair if they are prevented from doing it. If they can not afford to do it, it is not unfair, just inconvenient.Phil wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 15:28Because McLaren doesn't want to, because McLaren wants to win themselves, because McLaren has their own large aero department and staff, as well as resources and don't want to be a pawn?Capharol wrote: ↑15 Mar 2019, 15:15then what stops them for doing exactly the same?, why not working closer with McLaren....
hasn't they had that benefit aswell on the egnine side (i know it isn't exactly the same, but still.... they didn't complained back then) as the provide 3 teams with there engine....
Seriously, Haas is the only exception here of a team so small, that they came in and buying everything off Ferrari as far as the rules allow it. All the other teams, such as Williams, Sauber (Alfa), Racing Point are large enough and have their own proprietary designs and staff. Comparing the likes of Haas to McLaren or any other privateer team is not possible and as far as this sport goes pretty unprecedented.
And as for funding your own junior team (Haas2) - who? Where? At what cost?