2019 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 12-14

[Sierra117]

hamilton vs bottas

https://streamable.com/xse3l
https://streamable.com/xse3l

Excellent, thanks! Wish they would go back to the pre-Liberty tachometer design; the current one is so flat and boring.

you mean like this one? a rare breed these days

ricciardo chasing sainz
https://streamable.com/snzak
https://streamable.com/snzak

Yep, that's the one! So much more pleasing to look at. Honetly, Liberty makes it look like it's run by robots or something, like they don't stop and contemplate before doing something and just EXECUTE COMMAND.

[NathanOlder]

What I just do not understand with this defending Vettel and claiming Verstappen did something wrong argument is that Vettel himself acknowledged that he was wrong and apologised as soon as he could! No driver does that unless they know for sure that they messed up. Give credit to him for being big enough to do so. He knows better than anybody here so it is a non starter as an argument.

Maybe I missed a Vettel retracting his apology and accepting blame somewhere?

Fan of racing not specific drivers BTW.

Vettel keeping the water calm at the team he will be driving for in 2020/21.

[GPR-A]

Why don't you just use the time for something useful for the society, rather than posting junk here. Just saying.

You should be telling this to yourself.

I don't understand your problem man. Seriously, you are taking things too personally and jumping into things where you have no business. That guy is insinuating me and I did not offend or even directly referenced him for anything, which to me is a personal abuse and I responded. What has that got do with you? Get a life dude.

[Juzh]

Excellent, thanks! Wish they would go back to the pre-Liberty tachometer design; the current one is so flat and boring.

you mean like this one? a rare breed these days

ricciardo chasing sainz
https://streamable.com/snzak
https://streamable.com/snzak

Yep, that's the one! So much more pleasing to look at. Honetly, Liberty makes it look like it's run by robots or something, like they don't stop and contemplate before doing something and just EXECUTE COMMAND.

I agree. However, while the new tachometers might look bland, the choice is between that or nothing at all. The usual "old style" telemetry is available for a very limited amount of cars and always for only one car at a time. New style telemetry is available for every car, every session, all the time.

Personally i think it's good enough, and combined with F1TV now actually working to an acceptable level, we now have an unprecedented access to onboard footage and speed/throttle readings. Not all work done by liberty has been bad.

[sosic2121]

Is it also allowed when you make an overtaking move?

As far as I'm aware overtaking off the track is only allowed if the person you overtook was off the track as well.

IF this is correct, then Verstappen's overtake is illegal.
But he did the same in German GP T1 lap 1 and wasn't punished, so maybe you are wrong.

[izzy]

There was no "dangerous second move", that's why. Of all the stuff presented on here about this incident, the stuff showing no move is the more compelling evidence. That's from a dispassionate observer, at least.

what stuff showing no move? do you mean the lines someone drew on the empty track? and btw i'm at least as dispassionate as you

No. The on-board shows he made no real movement of the wheel. The videos showing that he followed a consistent line - with a nice line added to show that he does.

The reality is tgat Vettel just went too late on the brakes. He outbraked himself and because he was close to Verstappen's rear, he couldn't avoid him. The big double front lock up shows he had a massive overspeed on Max. No matter what Max did, Seb was always going to hit him.

There's never much movement of the wheel to move an F1 car sideways a bit, you can't use that as the criterion. it was the same in Baku, you couldn't see any movement of Max's steering wheel onboard but the offboard shows his car going sideways over the white lines, so the car's width+ that had been there for Ric, and Seb, became 90% of a car's width and threatening one of Brundle's airplane accidents with wheel to wheel contact

There was a gap, then it became 90% of a gap. So then Ric and Seb steered right again to have a safer kind of collision, and Max steered away a bit as well so the impression is that Ric and Seb just drove into the back of Max. But they had a gap, that they were going for, with lots of extra speed of course

[garygph]

What I just do not understand with this defending Vettel and claiming Verstappen did something wrong argument is that Vettel himself acknowledged that he was wrong and apologised as soon as he could! No driver does that unless they know for sure that they messed up. Give credit to him for being big enough to do so. He knows better than anybody here so it is a non starter as an argument.

Maybe I missed a Vettel retracting his apology and accepting blame somewhere?

Fan of racing not specific drivers BTW.

Vettel keeping the water calm at the team he will be driving for in 2020/21.

[izzy]

What I just do not understand with this defending Vettel and claiming Verstappen did something wrong argument is that Vettel himself acknowledged that he was wrong and apologised as soon as he could! No driver does that unless they know for sure that they messed up. Give credit to him for being big enough to do so. He knows better than anybody here so it is a non starter as an argument.

yes i don't understand it either! And yes it was very cool and classy of Seb. But still, when you look at the video, there was the gap and Max closing it with a second move and too late. It all happened very fast of course, the gap was only there for a second really

but if you pick Seb's apology as the only item of evidence you're being a bit selective, cos we can see what we can see. I suppose he might be thinking it wasn't much of a gap, or he ought to have sold the outside dummy more thoroughly, or he should've known max would do that? But in the cold light of day we can see there was a gap and with that much extra speed the ghost of Ayrton Senna said he had to go for it or not be a racing driver, afaic

[Sierra117]

you mean like this one? a rare breed these days

ricciardo chasing sainz
https://streamable.com/snzak
https://streamable.com/snzak

Yep, that's the one! So much more pleasing to look at. Honetly, Liberty makes it look like it's run by robots or something, like they don't stop and contemplate before doing something and just EXECUTE COMMAND.

I agree. However, while the new tachometers might look bland, the choice is between that or nothing at all. The usual "old style" telemetry is available for a very limited amount of cars and always for only one car at a time. New style telemetry is available for every car, every session, all the time.

Personally i think it's good enough, and combined with F1TV now actually working to an acceptable level, we now have an unprecedented access to onboard footage and speed/throttle readings. Not all work done by liberty has been bad.

Ah yes of course, overall it is much better and I do like how much Liberty has worked on bringing F1 "online", so to speak. It's just the small changes that nobody asked for that bug me (like nobody asking for excessive visual changes or fake sounds being played and all that).

[dans79]

IF this is correct, then Verstappen's overtake is illegal.

what overtake specifically?

[rogazilla]

And again my post which (by removing camera movement/zoom = turning it into a static shot) shows how Max did not react to Vettel (judging by which mirror he checked when Vettel went to the left), how he never went right and only the track layout makes it look like he did and how he continuously turned left 'naturally' coming out of the left hander gets ignored. but as izzy, who frantically keeps arguing the opposite, admitted "Often the best posts get ignored, as people can't see how to argue with them. It's a great post"

I think the way Hamilton defended (he did not) against Bottas shows as how much of a competition for the WDC he sees in him (none at all)

Your illustration has been ignored because it does not fit the narrative some people keep trying to push here. I am all for driver going for a gap but the gap people claim to be there simply does not as the track itself narrows towards the apex.

We should get everyone on a go cart track and do some racing to settle it

[rogazilla]

...

https://66.media.tumblr.com/446454e435d ... 1_1280.png

That's a tough sell as a gap as a left hander coming up. How much do you propose Max has to move to get out of the way of Vet carrying as much speed as he was and for both of them to make that corner? How much is this subtle move by Max that's not reflected on the steering? 1/4 of a meter? half a meter? Will that clear VET's move?

[dans79]

I don't understand your problem man. Seriously, you are taking things too personally and jumping into things where you have no business.

first off, this is a forum so people can respond to any post they want to.

That guy is insinuating me and I did not offend or even directly referenced him for anything, which to me is a personal abuse and I responded.

You did nothing huh?

This sure reads like a thinly veiled insult or an attempt to instigate a hostile response from anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you.

If anyone thinks Verstappen did not move twice, simply doesn't want to see the second move.

Get a life dude.

I'm sure you will later claim you did nothing in this case as well!

[GPR-A]

I don't understand your problem man. Seriously, you are taking things too personally and jumping into things where you have no business.

first off, this is a forum so people can respond to any post they want to.

That guy is insinuating me and I did not offend or even directly referenced him for anything, which to me is a personal abuse and I responded.

You did nothing huh?

This sure reads like a thinly veiled insult or an attempt to instigate a hostile response from anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you.

If anyone thinks Verstappen did not move twice, simply doesn't want to see the second move.

Get a life dude.

I'm sure you will later claim you did nothing in this case as well!

You can keep going on man. But you have bottled it. I lost all the respect I had for you. You became one of those here who doesn't know how to keep personal and other unrelated stuff separate. What you are doing now, is pure s***ty trolling. Just a shame.

[izzy]

That's a tough sell as a gap as a left hander coming up. How much do you propose Max has to move to get out of the way of Vet carrying as much speed as he was and for both of them to make that corner? How much is this subtle move by Max that's not reflected on the steering? 1/4 of a meter? half a meter? Will that clear VET's move?

Max has moved already away from the left, because yes it's a left hander coming up so he wants to be on the right, and also Seb has feinted going right for the pass on the outside

half a metre is 25% of a car's width, a rear tyre is 470mm, so that's enough to make all the difference. It was subtle

here it is with the width of Max's car copy/pasted (and not scaled!). it's a gap, and the racing car we're in is going a lot faster, what do we fans want to see happen next? Max's front wheels are steering a bit right still