2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 30 - Sep 1

[drunkf1fan]

Yes, and almost all of Mercedes time loss came from lifting and coasting into corners and literally nothing at all to do with corners or elevation change itself.

[Racer X]

For what ever reason I dont expect much change in the top 3 team but I cant wait to see how the midfield shifts. Im sure one or 2 teams will get slower/faster. Relative to the effectiveness of their updates. For the midfield as usual the Spa Update is their big one.

Last years Racing Point Debut was fun seeing them in Q3 be so effective and then their Sunday effort was very well done. Ive been a Force India Fan so im looking forward to this GP.
Lets hope Stroll has been working hard with Montoya since at the last race his coaching seemed to help out Stroll. Perez lets just hope hes consistent like usual. But i just wish his skill in Qualifying would improve but i mean at least his race craft is solid.

[zibby43]

The bus stop hair pin is too slow for it to require downforce. You only need downforce for sector 2. One thing I've noticed is the Mercedes isn't great if the track has a lot of elevation change combined with corners.

Merc's advantage in slow-speed corners goes beyond downforce. It has to do with their suspension kinematics and tire temperature management.

What tracks would those be?

In terms of the circuits that have been raced on so far this year, Austria is the only one I can think of where they didn't perform well this year. And that had to do with the heat and the altitude of the entire track itself.

Austria has 63.5m worth of elevation change over the course of a lap.

Monaco has a surprising 42m, and Hungary 34.7m. Mercedes has done well at both of those tracks this year.

Monaco:

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 306021.jpg

Hungary:

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 304503.jpg

Spa has the greatest elevation change over the course of a lap of any circuit on the calendar.

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 301894.jpg

It's one thing to have elevation change, another to combine elevation change with corners. Sector 3 in Austria for example, is a series of downhill right hand turns.

That's true. The nature of the camber is also important. But you must concede that Merc's true pace in Austria this year was greatly hampered by their PU overheating issues.

[godlameroso]

Merc's advantage in slow-speed corners goes beyond downforce. It has to do with their suspension kinematics and tire temperature management.

What tracks would those be?

In terms of the circuits that have been raced on so far this year, Austria is the only one I can think of where they didn't perform well this year. And that had to do with the heat and the altitude of the entire track itself.

Austria has 63.5m worth of elevation change over the course of a lap.

Monaco has a surprising 42m, and Hungary 34.7m. Mercedes has done well at both of those tracks this year.

Monaco:

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 306021.jpg

Hungary:

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 304503.jpg

Spa has the greatest elevation change over the course of a lap of any circuit on the calendar.

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... 301894.jpg

It's one thing to have elevation change, another to combine elevation change with corners. Sector 3 in Austria for example, is a series of downhill right hand turns.

That's true. The nature of the camber is also important. But you must concede that Merc's true pace in Austria this year was greatly hampered by their PU overheating issues.

Yeah, that's what they say.

[zibby43]

That's true. The nature of the camber is also important. But you must concede that Merc's true pace in Austria this year was greatly hampered by their PU overheating issues.

Yeah, that's what they say.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you implying that they didn't have PU overheating issues, and they merely decided to lift and coast 400m per lap in the race (costing them, at minimum, 0.5s/lap) for fun?

That's not on their word, there's video, team radio, and telemetry to support that.

[yelistener]

Both RB and Ferrari managed to beat their 2018 Q3 (by about 0.4s) at the Red Bull ring. Mercedes on the other hand couldn't. It's obvious that Mercedes suffered the unusual heat a lot more than others do.

[Starscreamer]

Tomorrow I'am going to Belgium
With my father and father-in-law.
Hope for a nice weekend

[izzy]

Tomorrow I'am going to Belgium
With my father and father-in-law.
Hope for a nice weekend

Have a great time it could be close!

[dxpetrov]

Both RB and Ferrari managed to beat their 2018 Q3 (by about 0.4s) at the Red Bull ring. Mercedes on the other hand couldn't. It's obvious that Mercedes suffered the unusual heat a lot more than others do.

Not really, the heat management doesn't kick in for the ''all-out'' Q-laps - only during the race.

[Just_a_fan]

Both RB and Ferrari managed to beat their 2018 Q3 (by about 0.4s) at the Red Bull ring. Mercedes on the other hand couldn't. It's obvious that Mercedes suffered the unusual heat a lot more than others do.

Not really, the heat management doesn't kick in for the ''all-out'' Q-laps - only during the race.

The requirement to open up the bodywork to allow for the in-race cooling needs caused the aero to be less than optimal. You race what you qualify, i.e. you can't change the bodywork between qualifying and the race, so they carried the inferior aero through both qualifying and the race. Qualifying was affected as much as the race was.

[dxpetrov]

Both RB and Ferrari managed to beat their 2018 Q3 (by about 0.4s) at the Red Bull ring. Mercedes on the other hand couldn't. It's obvious that Mercedes suffered the unusual heat a lot more than others do.

Not really, the heat management doesn't kick in for the ''all-out'' Q-laps - only during the race.

The requirement to open up the bodywork to allow for the in-race cooling needs caused the aero to be less than optimal. You race what you qualify, i.e. you can't change the bodywork between qualifying and the race, so they carried the inferior aero through both qualifying and the race. Qualifying was affected as much as the race was.

Again, completely and utterly wrong again. The ''lift-and-coast'' procedure, that mostly affects the pace during the race, is not at all present during the qualifications.

[GPR-A]

Not really, the heat management doesn't kick in for the ''all-out'' Q-laps - only during the race.

The requirement to open up the bodywork to allow for the in-race cooling needs caused the aero to be less than optimal. You race what you qualify, i.e. you can't change the bodywork between qualifying and the race, so they carried the inferior aero through both qualifying and the race. Qualifying was affected as much as the race was.

Again, completely and utterly wrong again. The ''lift-and-coast'' procedure, that mostly affects the pace during the race, is not at all present during the qualifications.

If their simulation data shows that temps would go out of the roof if the ultimate Q3 mode (Strat 2) is used, then they would not turn that mode on in Q3. It would naturally limit their ability to perform at their best in Q3.

[dxpetrov]

The requirement to open up the bodywork to allow for the in-race cooling needs caused the aero to be less than optimal. You race what you qualify, i.e. you can't change the bodywork between qualifying and the race, so they carried the inferior aero through both qualifying and the race. Qualifying was affected as much as the race was.

Again, completely and utterly wrong again. The ''lift-and-coast'' procedure, that mostly affects the pace during the race, is not at all present during the qualifications.

If their simulation data shows that temps would go out of the roof if the ultimate Q3 mode (Strat 2) is used, then they would not turn that mode on in Q3. It would naturally limit their ability to perform at their best in Q3.

I'm not talking here out my ar**. Teams had actually confirmed that heat built-up is not so much of an issue during Q-runs. They only have to do one ''full-on'' lap there. Not sure why do we need to beat up on this so much. It's basic logic as well.

[TAG]

Again, completely and utterly wrong again. The ''lift-and-coast'' procedure, that mostly affects the pace during the race, is not at all present during the qualifications.

If their simulation data shows that temps would go out of the roof if the ultimate Q3 mode (Strat 2) is used, then they would not turn that mode on in Q3. It would naturally limit their ability to perform at their best in Q3.

I'm not talking here out my ar**. Teams had actually confirmed that heat built-up is not so much of an issue during Q-runs. They only have to do one ''full-on'' lap there. Not sure why do we need to beat up on this so much. It's basic logic as well.

Maybe you guys are talking past one another. The lift and coast is during the race. But the aero preparations Mercedes made during Qualifying where they had to open up the body work beyond its optimal design was, Mercedes then went on to say that even that wasn't enough so they had to lift and coast. One problem (cooling) then leads to overheating during the race because Mercedes under estimated the level of cooling required.

[TAG]

Tomorrow I'am going to Belgium
With my father and father-in-law.
Hope for a nice weekend

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