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The Renault F1 team have been found guilty of implementing and using an illegal driver aid in their cars. The stewards decided in today's hearing in Geneva that both Renault cars are disqualified from the Japanese GP results.
Man, you still have a lot to learn about F1!LM10 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 13:33You don’t think that’s the only reason they’ve been crushing the rest of the grid since Singapore on pretty much every type of track, do you?
Also, “heavily skewing” a set up towards qualifying won’t make your inferior car win pole out of nowhere. Ferrari was no where near Mercedes until summer break, in both qualifying and race. Mercedes was not racing with Ferrari, they were playing ping pong with them.
Today we’ve seen Ferrari beating Mercedes in their own territory on pure pace. No one would have imagined Ferrari being on par with them, let alone beat them by 2.5 tenths.
This is a good point and it's so fundamentally depressing.
Then teach me, please.dans79 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 14:10Man, you still have a lot to learn about F1!LM10 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 13:33You don’t think that’s the only reason they’ve been crushing the rest of the grid since Singapore on pretty much every type of track, do you?
Also, “heavily skewing” a set up towards qualifying won’t make your inferior car win pole out of nowhere. Ferrari was no where near Mercedes until summer break, in both qualifying and race. Mercedes was not racing with Ferrari, they were playing ping pong with them.
Today we’ve seen Ferrari beating Mercedes in their own territory on pure pace. No one would have imagined Ferrari being on par with them, let alone beat them by 2.5 tenths.
maybe because bank wire transfers don't happen instantly
I think you and I and a few others are an unfortunate minority. The unrealistic audiences ask for constant excitement but don't realise that giving it all the time just raises the threshold and so everything before gets "boring". Even more importantly, if they only focus on the technical ability and execution and driver ability, it would first off, produce the so-called "boring" results and drive audiences away. How is that a bad thing? You'll end up with less revenue, less to go around to the winning teams and you get what they've all been asking for recently - the cost cap. This would be a natural cost cap. That would level the playing field dramatically. Less unrealistic demands and audiences is not a bad thing, because as the revenue goes down you'll have less to spend on incredibly intensive and expensive endeavours to gain 0.005 of a second. While I personally prefer said endeavours to gain 0.005 seconds, I don't mind at all if the costs went down naturally by way of natural demographics like us. Anyway, it's OT so I'll leave it there. Whatever they do, I hope it's for the actual spirit of racing and not for, let's face it ... lining the pockets of suits who couldn't care less about the actual racing or mechanical/skill aspect of the sport (a la video game and movie industry nowadays).Wynters wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 14:11This is a good point and it's so fundamentally depressing.
Maybe I'm the last person to the party on this one but it's clear now that there are two sets of rules, one set for the top 6 (possibly just Ferrari but I'll be generous) and one set for the rest of the grid. It's equally clear that you can just straight up cheat with no penalty, regardless of how blatant it is.
That's the sport now, is it? Even ignoring the false starts and running people off the track in the rare event they actually get close enough to overtake, are we fine with having cars throwing debris into other cars now? Apparently so.
What happens at the next GP if Bottas just floors it as soon as the lights start to come on? He'll get a 10+ second lead out of it so...no investigation? Maybe a black-and-white flag? Or do they wait until the end of the race, see he's won by 6-seconds and give him a 5-second penalty?
If Vettel gets close to him, can he just rip off his wing mirror and throw it at him? Saves putting him into the wall when he tries to over take, I suppose. More 'good', 'hard' racing, particularly if Vettel is stupid enough to avoid him rather than let himself be driven into and flipped.
I get it. F1 doesn't produce an endorphin injection every 3-5 seconds for those who don't appreciate the technical aspects of the sport and it doesn't sell to the US audiences. Maybe more graphics showing made-up data? Perhaps if we added cheerleaders in the pitlane? At least it'd give the pit crews something to do between pitstops. And we could have stewarding decisions decided by polls like Driver of the Day! At least there'd be better consistency. Are we going to see 'cage match qualifying' and team principals bursting into press conferences and hitting each other with chairs? "And Steiner has just put Wolff through the table! Can you believe it?"
The sport I love is one where technical ability, skill and execution are the deciding factors, not what appeals most to the crowd. That's what F1 is to me. I guess I'm wrong.
As we all do! It's a always changing situation...dans79 wrote:Man, you still have a lot to learn about F1!LM10 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 13:33You don’t think that’s the only reason they’ve been crushing the rest of the grid since Singapore on pretty much every type of track, do you?
Also, “heavily skewing” a set up towards qualifying won’t make your inferior car win pole out of nowhere. Ferrari was no where near Mercedes until summer break, in both qualifying and race. Mercedes was not racing with Ferrari, they were playing ping pong with them.
Today we’ve seen Ferrari beating Mercedes in their own territory on pure pace. No one would have imagined Ferrari being on par with them, let alone beat them by 2.5 tenths.
Agree. The current lack of severity in penalties, and lack of penalties regardless are making it more beneficial to bend or break the rules than adhere to them in increasing circumstances. One day someone will take it too far or someone will get hurt and there will understandably be complaints about dangerous precedents having been set. Or the first person to actuall get punished will rightly say 'Why me?' when others got away with it.Wynters wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 14:11This is a good point and it's so fundamentally depressing.
Maybe I'm the last person to the party on this one but it's clear now that there are two sets of rules, one set for the top 6 (possibly just Ferrari but I'll be generous) and one set for the rest of the grid. It's equally clear that you can just straight up cheat with no penalty, regardless of how blatant it is.
That's the sport now, is it? Even ignoring the false starts and running people off the track in the rare event they actually get close enough to overtake, are we fine with having cars throwing debris into other cars now? Apparently so.
What happens at the next GP if Bottas just floors it as soon as the lights start to come on? He'll get a 10+ second lead out of it so...no investigation? Maybe a black-and-white flag? Or do they wait until the end of the race, see he's won by 6-seconds and give him a 5-second penalty?
If Vettel gets close to him, can he just rip off his wing mirror and throw it at him? Saves putting him into the wall when he tries to over take, I suppose. More 'good', 'hard' racing, particularly if Vettel is stupid enough to avoid him rather than let himself be driven into and flipped.
I get it. F1 doesn't produce an endorphin injection every 3-5 seconds for those who don't appreciate the technical aspects of the sport and it doesn't sell to the US audiences. Maybe more graphics showing made-up data? Perhaps if we added cheerleaders in the pitlane? At least it'd give the pit crews something to do between pitstops. And we could have stewarding decisions decided by polls like Driver of the Day! At least there'd be better consistency. Are we going to see 'cage match qualifying' and team principals bursting into press conferences and hitting each other with chairs? "And Steiner has just put Wolff through the table! Can you believe it?"
The sport I love is one where technical ability, skill and execution are the deciding factors, not what appeals most to the crowd. That's what F1 is to me. I guess I'm wrong.
No Raikkonen also got points added to his license, as did Kyviat and Ericsson for jump start and incorrect placement in the box.Restomaniac wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 11:47Erm Raikkonen was given a Penalty for jump start and he just got an in race penalty.Edax wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 11:28Yeah it was crazy. But after that as well. It was pretty obvious that Leclerc’s mirror mount was failing. Schumacher was forced to pull in once to remove a mirror, which was working itself loose. But in this case they just happily let it happen, and kept the camera’s on it to see if they could capture another Massa type incident. Ridiculous.Shrieker wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 10:12Attempted murder by the FIA.
Check around the 15 second mark. That piece was much bigger than I thought at the time.
For the Vettel incident I can somewhat understand. Awarding him a false start would mean that Vettel would be disqualified for the next race. That would be a big embarrassment for ferrari and F1.
And for Leclerc and Verstappen. It probably should be a penalty. However in end these things happen and there was no bad intent. I do get the feeling that Leclerc is becoming a second Grosean. Yes he is quick, but in order to be that quick he has to drive much closer to the limit than some of the other top drivers, there seems to be not a lot of margin with him.
The new front wing, as well as some of the previous updates has given them enough downforce at the front, that they can now more easily get the tires into the proper window.miguelalvesreis wrote: ↑13 Oct 2019, 14:28Nevertheless, with such a setup and pace advantage Mercs had, only 13s on the end?
In almost 40 years of watching F1 I've never seen a team making such strides towards qualifying and still be able to have good pace on race day.
Seems, at least to me, that there's a real unlocking or improvement of performance from Ferrari, even if not enough on race day. But they are surely closer.
