2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

[Jolle]

He missed a few years in minor racing classes. I always said it's a problem because there are a few thing you don't learn later in life (in this case in F1). Red Bull always defending him for these kind of races and searching mistakes everywhere but with him is not helping at all. He is possibly the best racing driver we saw for a long time (not my opinion and not based on facts) but he lacks on other things. Maybe he does not learn these things anymore.

I hate to say this, but I think this more down to his character rather than experience. I do not believe those few years in minor classes would have shaped him differently. Rather, this is something for a mental coach to solve, just like Massa and Grosjean had one (although for different mental issues).

Don't forget Hamilton in his McLaren years, lots of his DNF's were first lap incidents, quite similar to what Verstappen experienced. Over time we tend to forget these.

Besides that, the RedBull is still a car where you have to make your move in slow corners, which are high risk moves compared to sail past on DRS on a straight. We've seen the so called "dive bombs" from Ricciardo, Verstappen and Albon now as well.

[Wass85]

He wasn’t worried though. It’s a trick he has played plenty of times.

A trick for what exactly hahahaha, I think you're putting two and two together and making six.

To play others out of a strategy. Give others the idea they can gain on him. Give false tactical information that the other teams might use in strategy calls. The thing is; He had pace in hand and always kept pace in hand, knowing that both Bottas and Leclerc still had to stop. They put in a huge bluff by having Hamilton as the sole one on this strategy; and it worked out perfectly, just like it has done before.

I'm not buying it, was he also putting it on when complaining in Suzuka? Looks like those tactics didn't work out for him there.

[Wass85]

He missed a few years in minor racing classes. I always said it's a problem because there are a few thing you don't learn later in life (in this case in F1). Red Bull always defending him for these kind of races and searching mistakes everywhere but with him is not helping at all. He is possibly the best racing driver we saw for a long time (not my opinion and not based on facts) but he lacks on other things. Maybe he does not learn these things anymore.

I hate to say this, but I think this more down to his character rather than experience. I do not believe those few years in minor classes would have shaped him differently. Rather, this is something for a mental coach to solve, just like Massa and Grosjean had one (although for different mental issues).

Don't forget Hamilton in his McLaren years, lots of his DNF's were first lap incidents, quite similar to what Verstappen experienced. Over time we tend to forget these.

Besides that, the RedBull is still a car where you have to make your move in slow corners, which are high risk moves compared to sail past on DRS on a straight. We've seen the so called "dive bombs" from Ricciardo, Verstappen and Albon now as well.

It's happening at a similar point in his career as it happened to Hamilton in 2011.

The difference is though he hasn't got a teammate who is matching him in qualy or race pace like Button did, Albon is doing a decent job but let's be honest he's miles off Max.

[Restomaniac]

A trick for what exactly hahahaha, I think you're putting two and two together and making six.

To play others out of a strategy. Give others the idea they can gain on him. Give false tactical information that the other teams might use in strategy calls. The thing is; He had pace in hand and always kept pace in hand, knowing that both Bottas and Leclerc still had to stop. They put in a huge bluff by having Hamilton as the sole one on this strategy; and it worked out perfectly, just like it has done before.

I'm not buying it, was he also putting it on when complaining in Suzuka? Looks like those tactics didn't work out for him there.

’I’m not buying it’.
Really? I’m shocked.

Plenty of others can see it for what it is though.

[Wass85]

To play others out of a strategy. Give others the idea they can gain on him. Give false tactical information that the other teams might use in strategy calls. The thing is; He had pace in hand and always kept pace in hand, knowing that both Bottas and Leclerc still had to stop. They put in a huge bluff by having Hamilton as the sole one on this strategy; and it worked out perfectly, just like it has done before.

I'm not buying it, was he also putting it on when complaining in Suzuka? Looks like those tactics didn't work out for him there.

’I’m not buying it’.
Really? I’m shocked.

Plenty of others can see it for what it is though.

No, they are really seeing what they want to believe.

The undercut had already happened, in what way would it benefit Lewis complaining about the tyres? If anything it would have given Vettel that extra incentive to push.

[Restomaniac]

I'm not buying it, was he also putting it on when complaining in Suzuka? Looks like those tactics didn't work out for him there.

’I’m not buying it’.
Really? I’m shocked.

Plenty of others can see it for what it is though.

No, they are really seeing what they want to believe.

The undercut had already happened, in what way would it benefit Lewis complaining about the tyres? If anything it would have given Vettel that extra incentive to push.

Erm Ferrari over team radio answered that when they told Vettel that Hamilton’s tyres would be done with 5 laps to go or did you just happen to miss that.

As far as Vettel and Ferrari were concerned their race was with Bottas.

[Wass85]

’I’m not buying it’.
Really? I’m shocked.

Plenty of others can see it for what it is though.

No, they are really seeing what they want to believe.

The undercut had already happened, in what way would it benefit Lewis complaining about the tyres? If anything it would have given Vettel that extra incentive to push.

Erm Ferrari over team radio answered that when they told Vettel that Hamilton’s tyres would be done with 5 laps to go or did you just happen to miss that.

As far as Vettel and Ferrari were concerned their race was with Bottas.

No, they were giving Vettel false hope that his tyres would fall off the cliff. You don't hang back if you believe that to be the case, you turn it up and put on the pressure.

You still didn't answer my question about Suzuka, was Hamilton's complaints genuine in that race or are they only so when it suits your narrative?

[turbof1]

He missed a few years in minor racing classes. I always said it's a problem because there are a few thing you don't learn later in life (in this case in F1). Red Bull always defending him for these kind of races and searching mistakes everywhere but with him is not helping at all. He is possibly the best racing driver we saw for a long time (not my opinion and not based on facts) but he lacks on other things. Maybe he does not learn these things anymore.

I hate to say this, but I think this more down to his character rather than experience. I do not believe those few years in minor classes would have shaped him differently. Rather, this is something for a mental coach to solve, just like Massa and Grosjean had one (although for different mental issues).

Don't forget Hamilton in his McLaren years, lots of his DNF's were first lap incidents, quite similar to what Verstappen experienced. Over time we tend to forget these.

Besides that, the RedBull is still a car where you have to make your move in slow corners, which are high risk moves compared to sail past on DRS on a straight. We've seen the so called "dive bombs" from Ricciardo, Verstappen and Albon now as well.

Oh yeah. Hamilton even had his worse year in 2011 regarding all of that, his 5th year into F1. Spatouts due youth; however with Verstappen it seems more "structural", a continuous line of red mist moments.

I think Verstappen could have gotten Bottas on the straight with DRS. The move he did would have made more sense if he was stuck behind Bottas for a good amount of laps, but he did it from further back than Ricciardo would dare to try and in my eyes it was a red mist moment.

this is for the record just my personal opinion. I have neither or love for Verstappen.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hamilton had already proven he was a clean driver before 2011 so the contrast with Verstoppen is a bit invalid.

I am actually begining to worry for Max. He came in as teenager with so much promise that we tend to still think he is a rookie forgetting he is in his fifth year! and he hasnt' really matured into an "experienced" driver yet. When will it happen?

[Juzh]

Da BAWZZ!!

WOW!!! A MASTERCLASSE!!

A Prost-esque demonstration in subterfug-ical masterery of italian cheese elstomers!

you ok?

[dans79]

You don't hang back if you believe that to be the case, you turn it up and put on the pressure.

You do when you're tires are marginal.

[Wass85]

You don't hang back if you believe that to be the case, you turn it up and put on the pressure.

You do when you're tires are marginal.

They were far less marginal than Hamilton though, you don't let someone in trouble with tyres off the hook.

[Restomaniac]

You don't hang back if you believe that to be the case, you turn it up and put on the pressure.

You do when you're tires are marginal.

They were far less marginal than Hamilton though, you don't let someone in trouble with tyres off the hook.

Unless of course you think he is stopping and you're protecting yours against the guy behind you wanting to attack late on.

Like I said Ferrari and Vettel thought their race was against Bottas.

[izzy]

Don't forget Hamilton in his McLaren years, lots of his DNF's were first lap incidents, quite similar to what Verstappen experienced. Over time we tend to forget these.

Besides that, the RedBull is still a car where you have to make your move in slow corners, which are high risk moves compared to sail past on DRS on a straight. We've seen the so called "dive bombs" from Ricciardo, Verstappen and Albon now as well.

Lewis has never driven like Max. At 22 he had a reputation for 'aggressive' driving but it was clean, he'd commit and be past before the other guy had time to react. Even in 2011 that everyone exaggerates he only had one clear mistake (Singapore) otherwise it was the stewards, or Massa or Koba turning into him or Maldonado.

There's a lot to like about Max but he's very aggressive without having that judgment Lewis has. Last year he had incidents in HALF the races! (10/21). Yesterday he deliberately steered into Lewis but badly, knocked him onto the green so Lewis lost his back end as well, and then left his front wing hopefully on the outside into T3! Then did a block pass on Valtteri that VB wasn't expecting... and that was after tossing away pole. He's stubborn to a ridiculous degree and too aggressive to succeed, if he can't get it under control. Lewis obviously is who he's hoping to emulate, and now he's the age Lewis was when he started, he needs to see that Lewis' judgment is what's made him so successful. Not aggression. Yesterday was this whole story in 1 race, but it applies to an awful lot of races

[TAG]

He is kind of missing control. He is not stupid; he is actually a very intelligent driver when it comes to racecraft, but he is also an accute case of throwing intelligence away in favour of the red mist.

His red mist makes Vettel's look mild by comparison. It will be his undoing in the sport if he is unable to control things. I can't imagine how he'd perform if he was involved in a tight WDC year long race. Maybe time will wisen him up.