2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

[Shooty81]

It’d have being interesting if they had won the wdc with it....

But they gained a Monza win with it, maybe Spa?

oh fair comment lol, if they'd beaten Lewis with it i'd have been outraged!!!

I don't think it worked in races especially, they still only have 105kg after all. obviously grid position is gold, but not the whole story once they're running 1,2

Aren't the 105kg calculated by integrating the measurements of the same sensor?

[PlatinumZealot]

I dunno. I think the Honda has beenbgood in high altitude locations sincelast year. That may have something to do with it.

But weren't Ferrari wrecking Honda and Mercedes on the straights in Mexico?

Honda was still better than expected there.

[LM10]

Just read the qualifying press conference, all 3 especially Verstappen and Vettel were at it like cat and dog.

I don't understand Hamilton's comments though when he says they are losing a big chunk of time to Red Bull on the straight?

Redbull has been pretty fast on the straights lately. All of a sudden the Honda PU seems to be even more powerful than the Mercedes. All eyes on Ferrari, but what’s at least as weird is Honda making such a huge jump and (in my opinion) overtaking the Mercedes powerwise.
As for Ferrari, it’s not really conclusive. In the acceleration phases they still are the clear number ones.

But it isn,t suddenly. Honda has been diligently working at it. They even showed a graph of where they feel they stand. Quite accurate I think. Must remember this is also at 600 meter above sea level, it mitigates performance advantages. Also, when a new spec is introduced they increase the performance in small steps.Honda has done that for 2 years now. They are still morbid for name damage. They suffered so bad in the passed.

What is suddenly is that Ferrari isn,t taking 1-2 by largish margins anymore.

Which large margins are you talking about?

Italy: Ferrari as fast as Mercedes.
Singapore: No power track.
Russia: In the hands of Leclerc 4 tenths margin. (Vettel was as fast as Hamilton)
Japan: In the hands of Vettel 2.5 tenths margin. But it was told that the heavy winds influenced Mercedes' pace badly. (Leclerc was as fast as Bottas)
Mexico: Verstappen 2.5 tenths faster than the fastest Ferrari.
USA: All 3 top teams equally fast.
Brazil: Redbull faster than Ferrari, but Ferrari faster than Mercedes.

Important to remember: It was in Austin when Ferrari went for a Monaco-like rear wing and today in Brazil as well. Conclusion: In Austin the Ferrari was as fast as Mercedes in S2 and in Brazil Leclerc was second fastest in S2 being only 7 hundreds adrift of Max. Until Austin and Brazil Ferrari was nowhere near being as fast as Redbull or Mercedes in slow to medium speed corners.

So saying that Ferrari took 1-2 by large margins is simply not true.

[214270]

When was the last Merc update? Someone refresh my memory please

[LM10]

When was the last Merc update? Someone refresh my memory please

It was in Japan.

[foxmulder_ms]

Once Redbull realized what Ferrari was doing (burning more fuel with "cheat") they started to do it themselves Or Honda is finally caught and passed both Ferrari and Merc without any "real" update!!@!@!@

[langedweil]

Once Redbull realized what Ferrari was doing (burning more fuel with "cheat") they started to do it themselves Or Honda is finally caught and passed both Ferrari and Merc without any "real" update!!@!@!@

It's their 5th PU this year ?
I'd say it's engine mapping and new fuel, takes a while to optimize.

They've been laughed at when stated they were on Mercs power level, perhaps slightly behind Fer. But combined with a little altitude, mechanical grip, an outwash-ish FW and there you go.
They were still lagging Fer in straight-line-speed, but now the ridiculous Fer advantage doesn't seem to exist anymore it al seems pretty much converged within 0.2/0.3 ... and that is where cars and drivers can start to make a difference.

[siskue2005]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJhXqxEXUAA ... name=large

Speed traps still show Ferrari on top. Vettel the more accurate comparison in terms of engine life. Honda's turn of straight line speed is rather incredible today!

If you have followed what really is ferrari engine doing and all those, then you would know that it was not about the top speed! it was indeed about how they reach that speed... their sudden acceleration and push towards the final speed is what gained them so mych time in all those tracks where they got pole (see the ferrari engine thread for more details).

[siskue2005]

Before the TD

Mexico fastest sector times
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/505 ... 06ebb2.jpg
Two tenths faster in the sector with straights

Singapore fastest sector times
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/395 ... 803833.jpg
Two tenths faster in the sector with straights

Sochi fastest sector times
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/036 ... 9e586f.jpg
5 tenths faster in the sector with straights

After the TD

Brazil fastest sector times
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/932 ... 5a1fc9.jpg
Only fractionally faster in sectors with straights and slower in high downforce sctors

USA fastest sector times
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/666 ... 0b9951.jpg
Slower in sector with straights

Just putting it here, it defently seems that they have lost a huge time in sectors with straights after the TD

I also noticed this and would agree recent TDs have hit ferrari's PU performance advantage, significantly even. Previously they would have blitzed those sectors with ease, now it's not happening at all.

Yes agree

[siskue2005]

So are we gonna ignore all the facts i posted above??

seems like it

lol i thought this was a technical forum not autosports forum

[Hammerfist]

Just read the qualifying press conference, all 3 especially Verstappen and Vettel were at it like cat and dog.

I don't understand Hamilton's comments though when he says they are losing a big chunk of time to Red Bull on the straight?

My guess: Mexico, Spielberg and Interlagos, are the highest circuits on the calendar. The renault and Honda engines seem to handle that better than the Merc.

Well the high altitude takes a certain percentage of the power away. So the more power an engine has to begin with, the more they will lose at altitude. Honda and Renault being the weakest engines, it's understandable why they are losing less, and therefore the field gets evened out.

[jumpingfish]

I don't understand why do people forget about race simulations during FPs? Ferrari were weaker than RB/Merc and whole season was ruined cause of low paces on Sundays. Now they try to be more competitive in races but people say something like that: "No, it is 100% TD, only Ferrari MUST be fastest on straights with 1sec advantage. Who cares about speed on corners? We need speed on straights from Ferrari. No speed? Ha-ha, cheaters turned off their cheats." L - Logic.
Ferrari STILL faster on those straights after all TDs but where is Mercedes now? Weaker than Honda? Are they cheaters?

[siskue2005]

I don't understand why do people forget about race simulations during FPs? Ferrari were weaker than RB/Merc and whole season was ruined cause of low paces on Sundays. Now they try to be more competitive in races but people say something like that: "No, it is 100% TD, only Ferrari MUST be fastest on straights with 1sec advantage. Who cares about speed on corners? We need speed on straights from Ferrari. No speed? Ha-ha, cheaters turned off their cheats." L - Logic.

Funny that they have tried this only after the TD was put forward!, but they did try that at austin and how did that work out? 52 sec slower than others in race (yes they turned their engine down, but that was only after they found out they cant even stay within 10 sec of the merc and rbr!)
So they r now trying the very successful race setups with high downforce which they were so successful at Austin!

Ferrari STILL faster on those straights after all TDs

No they are not, if u see the sector times of all the races i posted before you will notice they have lost massive times in both slow and fast sectors, and every team even Mercedes has matched their sector times in straights!


Before the TD

Mexico fastest sector times

Two tenths faster in the sector with straights

Singapore fastest sector times

Two tenths faster in the sector with straights

Sochi fastest sector times

5 tenths faster in the sector with straights

After the TD

Brazil fastest sector times

Only fractionally faster in sectors with straights and slower in high downforce sctors

USA fastest sector times

Slower in sector with straights

but where is Mercedes now? Weaker than Honda? Are they cheaters?

lol what an underhand comment! the Merc has been slower in top speed and also sector times since the season started!

[jumpingfish]

Funny that they have tried this only after the TD was put forward!, but they did try that at austin and how did that work out?

To be more competitive in race, you should do it before Qualify. When first TD was created? Saturday? Can you explain me when they finished to prepare the car before Parc Ferme period started and when first TD in USA created?

lol what an underhand comment! the Merc has been slower in top speed and also sector times since the season started!

It is not "underhand comment". It's same as your "they lost their advantage after TD". According to this I can say: In 2014-2017 Mercedes were cheaters with oil burning but after prohibitions from 2018 till today they lost their engine advantage and now Ferrari and Honda (Renault?) more powerful . Don't you like logic like this?

[siskue2005]

Funny that they have tried this only after the TD was put forward!, but they did try that at austin and how did that work out?

To be more competitive in race, you should do it before Qualify. When first TD was created? Saturday? Can you explain me when they finished to prepare the car before Parc Ferme period started and when first TD in USA created?

The TD at Austin was given out after the friday practice on Saturday moring, which can be confirmed in this link from offical site https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... FygYF.html
So to answer your question, the parc ferme only applies when you go out for the first time on the track in Q1!, so any team could have easily did whatever they need to do to the car from saturday morning until saturday late afternoon for the qualifying!

It is not "underhand comment". It's same as your "they lost their advantage after TD". According to this I can say: In 2014-2017 Mercedes were cheaters with oil burning but after prohibitions from 2018 till today they lost their engine advantage and now Ferrari and Honda (Renault?) more powerful . Don't you like logic like this?

No its not the same as my comment, COZ the main difference in my comment is that i have put up sector times from all the tracks to show the difference, which you have ignored completely (coz it doesnt suit ur agenda)