2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

[Mamba]

Why is running more DF a bad thing now? People keep saying they should have won in Japan. Their tyre usage was terrible compared to Mercedes. Merc strategy put Hamilton behind Vet that day. If it wasn't for the bad starts, then Merc could simply have run a bit longer and overcut them. Ferrari have lost too many races now because of poor tyre usage in the race so why not go to higher DF to counter? Russia was perhaps the only race where they had the superior quali and race pace. Even in Spa and Monza they just won. You can't really overtake in Singapore without a massive pace advantage. Mexico again their tyres overheated when following.

Austin is a bit of an outlier for some reason. Let's see the race today but the TD's should have an effect of acceleration & quali. Ferrari rarely had a massive power advantage in the eace before the TD anyway.

Perhaps they did lose something, but I think there is more to be explained than just the TD's.

[jumpingfish]

Ok i need to rephrase, when Ferrari started to get 6 poles out of 6 races using jetmode after the first six races after the summer break
Yes i am glad that u understand the the difference between straightline speed and faster in sector times where there are straights, coz that is what actually shows their performance in a sector with mostly straights..... coz if u just look at the top speed then Racing point have been dominating it pretty much entire season, coz ferrari use their jet mode to get the acceleration after the traction zone to reach a certain top speed faster than others and maintain it there. (not necessarily the top speed advantage).

Ferrari had poles in Bahrain and Canada with their Jet mode already, they could win there also, but technical issues/Vettel's mistake - they lost.

I don't see what are you showing me on those screenshots, where Verstappen SPD1 227km/h, Lec 159 km/h. What is it? Average speeds or what it should tell me?
Look at first 0:0 - 0:05sec of Juzh video on RB thread. https://streamable.com/1duxi https://streamable.com/1duxi
I made few screens from it, yes quality is poor also there are no 100% steady position of cars and speedometer (best comes from GPS/FIA instruments) but:
Verst ~ 111km/h at that corner
Vettel ~ 115
Then:
Verst 214 near that line
Vettel 226 already and he is a bit far from line than Max.
What is it if not Ferrari's acceleration that didn't disappear after TD? If they affraid to cheat, they couldn't accelerate faster than RB if their boost mode is illegal and turned off. (if we remember Ferrari's RW sizes, but need to compare which one RB brought) .
One thing is bad for me now: Why information about engine power/torque/DF-drag levels are closed to all? What would be if FIA tells for example: Ferrari engine 1050h.p., Mercedes 1040, Honda 1035. Italians have XXX.xx points of DF, Mercedes XXX.yy, RB XXX.zzz, Drag X, Y and Z. Even if all knows, they couldn't do anything with that info, because it doesn't give advantage.
I'm waiting for Q3 mini sector comparison on official F1 youtube channel but they are not always do it and its weird.

[Edax]

Just read the qualifying press conference, all 3 especially Verstappen and Vettel were at it like cat and dog.

I don't understand Hamilton's comments though when he says they are losing a big chunk of time to Red Bull on the straight?

My guess: Mexico, Spielberg and Interlagos, are the highest circuits on the calendar. The renault and Honda engines seem to handle that better than the Merc.

Well the high altitude takes a certain percentage of the power away. So the more power an engine has to begin with, the more they will lose at altitude. Honda and Renault being the weakest engines, it's understandable why they are losing less, and therefore the field gets evened out.

True though I am not sure whether it is proportional. I can imagine the loss depends on the fuel mixture and turbo efficiency.

Another consideration is the aero. Teams have to put on more downforce to compensate for the altitude. I think we can agree that the RB is pretty efficient on downforce, compared to other teams.

I think it is difficult to make the case that RB has gained a lot of power. I hope the have because it would be nice to have a proper three-way fight. But I think we’ll have to wait for the next race to be sure.

[siskue2005]

Why is running more DF a bad thing now? People keep saying they should have won in Japan. Their tyre usage was terrible compared to Mercedes. Merc strategy put Hamilton behind Vet that day. If it wasn't for the bad starts, then Merc could simply have run a bit longer and overcut them. Ferrari have lost too many races now because of poor tyre usage in the race so why not go to higher DF to counter?

Really?
Lets look at the races where ferrari has been on pole and lost the race, shall we?

1. Bahrain > Lost the race due to poor reliability (not due to poor tyre usage!)
2. Canada > Lost the race due to penalty (not due to poor tyre usage!)
3. Austria > Lost the race due to pitting earlier than Max (not due to poor tyre usage!)
5. Russia > Lost the race due to poor reliability (not due to poor tyre usage!)
6. Japan > Lost the race due to poor start and crash (not due to poor tyre usage!)
7. Mexico > Lost the race due to poor strategy and superior driving for the competitors (not due to poor tyre usage!)

This is how they lost the races which they should have won, NOT due to poor tyre usage or poor race pace!

Russia was perhaps the only race where they had the superior quali and race pace. Even in Spa and Monza they just won. You can't really overtake in Singapore without a massive pace advantage. Mexico again their tyres overheated when following.

In Spa, Lewis was getting closer and closer only coz he pitted later, coz when they were on equal tyres they both were a match fo race pace

in Monza, Lewis was faster i agree, but they still won it due to some rule-bending and also massive speed in the DRS zone, as the following car didnot even got side by side even with DRS and slipstream

In Singapore, they still won with good strategy and being faster where it matters.

Mexico, it was a blunder to allow Lewis undercut them, that is what lost them the race!

So from this we can see that being faster in qualy and also being faster in the places where it mattered will surely has higher chance of them winning the race!!!!

So it seems really poor way to break this strategy of poles and winning the race and going slower in quly and even more slower in the race!

Do you see what is happening? and all these all of a sudden after the TD is highly suspicious!

and it is not me alone, Allison also thinks the same...i will take word from a team personal more seriously than any excuses in a fan forum

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... n/4598613/

Asked by Motorsport.com for his thoughts on Ferrari’s change in straightline speed gains in Brazil, Allison warned against making assumptions but admitted Ferrari’s shift in form was noteworthy.

“I think they were still pretty useful on the straights,” said Allison. “But not quite as marked as it was [Friday].

“That could be all sorts of things. We all run different power modes on a Friday.

“Probably the only thing that you could stand back from a distance and say is that it's two races on the trot where it hasn't been pole position for a Ferrari. And they sort of had a reasonably comfortable margin.

“So it's an interesting thing, but not anything you could draw any solid conclusions from.

“They’re still a quick car on the straights and let's just see how they are in the race tomorrow, how they are in the in the races to come.”

[Bill]

Last year Max lost pole by 0.5 tenth but was fastest in the race , this year he on pole on merit but according to you it's difficult to determine if Redbull have gained power? Or you think they have a super chassis that gives them massive advantage.

[siskue2005]

Ok i need to rephrase, when Ferrari started to get 6 poles out of 6 races using jetmode after the first six races after the summer break
Yes i am glad that u understand the the difference between straightline speed and faster in sector times where there are straights, coz that is what actually shows their performance in a sector with mostly straights..... coz if u just look at the top speed then Racing point have been dominating it pretty much entire season, coz ferrari use their jet mode to get the acceleration after the traction zone to reach a certain top speed faster than others and maintain it there. (not necessarily the top speed advantage).

Ferrari had poles in Bahrain and Canada with their Jet mode already, they could win there also, but technical issues/Vettel's mistake - they lost.

I don't see what are you showing me on those screenshots, where Verstappen SPD1 227km/h, Lec 159 km/h. What is it? Average speeds or what it should tell me?
Look at first 0:0 - 0:05sec of Juzh video on RB thread. https://streamable.com/1duxi https://streamable.com/1duxi
I made few screens from it, yes quality is poor also there are no 100% steady position of cars and speedometer (best comes from GPS/FIA instruments) but:
https://i.imgur.com/QkMQJcG.png Verst ~ 111km/h at that corner
https://i.imgur.com/fAmUf9x.png Vettel ~ 115
Then:
https://i.imgur.com/geKODFR.png Verst 214 near that line
https://i.imgur.com/GtQ2hhP.png Vettel 226 already and he is a bit far from line than Max.
What is it if not Ferrari's acceleration that didn't disappear after TD? If they affraid to cheat, they couldn't accelerate faster than RB if their boost mode is illegal and turned off. (if we remember Ferrari's RW sizes, but need to compare which one RB brought) .
One thing is bad for me now: Why information about engine power/torque/DF-drag levels are closed to all? What would be if FIA tells for example: Ferrari engine 1050h.p., Mercedes 1040, Honda 1035. Italians have XXX.xx points of DF, Mercedes XXX.yy, RB XXX.zzz, Drag X, Y and Z. Even if all knows, they couldn't do anything with that info, because it doesn't give advantage.
I'm waiting for Q3 mini sector comparison on official F1 youtube channel but they are not always do it and its weird.

Quote from the person who made those videos, and the one who you quoted

verstappen's pole lap 1.07.508
https://streamable.com/uq1n1
https://streamable.com/uq1n1

His Q2 lap, which was his fastest lap actually (by 0.005s)
https://streamable.com/dpys6
https://streamable.com/dpys6

vs vettel - honda is pretty handy on the straights
https://streamable.com/1duxi
https://streamable.com/1duxi

At 1:11 Vettel is at 192 km/h and Max at 202 km/h. Up until there Vettel was 10 or more km/h down. Then he outaccelerates him and is at 258 km/h vs. Verstappens 257 km/h. No DRS there yet and Ferrari with the clearly bigger rear wing.
Still hard to interpret what has changed, if you ask me.

Dont read too much into such precise speed readings. It's next to impossible to sync speedometers with such accuracy to be able to do point based messurements. It's possible vettel's speedo is slightly ahead and verstappen is slighty behind or vice versa. Difference might only be a tenth or two, but for F1 car that's enough to make a noticable difference.

So i will go with Juzh is saying

[Capharol]

Ok i need to rephrase, when Ferrari started to get 6 poles out of 6 races using jetmode after the first six races after the summer break
Yes i am glad that u understand the the difference between straightline speed and faster in sector times where there are straights, coz that is what actually shows their performance in a sector with mostly straights..... coz if u just look at the top speed then Racing point have been dominating it pretty much entire season, coz ferrari use their jet mode to get the acceleration after the traction zone to reach a certain top speed faster than others and maintain it there. (not necessarily the top speed advantage).

Ferrari had poles in Bahrain and Canada with their Jet mode already, they could win there also, but technical issues/Vettel's mistake - they lost.

I don't see what are you showing me on those screenshots, where Verstappen SPD1 227km/h, Lec 159 km/h. What is it? Average speeds or what it should tell me?
Look at first 0:0 - 0:05sec of Juzh video on RB thread. https://streamable.com/1duxi https://streamable.com/1duxi
I made few screens from it, yes quality is poor also there are no 100% steady position of cars and speedometer (best comes from GPS/FIA instruments) but:
https://i.imgur.com/QkMQJcG.png Verst ~ 111km/h at that corner
https://i.imgur.com/fAmUf9x.png Vettel ~ 115
Then:
https://i.imgur.com/geKODFR.png Verst 214 near that line
https://i.imgur.com/GtQ2hhP.png Vettel 226 already and he is a bit far from line than Max.
What is it if not Ferrari's acceleration that didn't disappear after TD? If they affraid to cheat, they couldn't accelerate faster than RB if their boost mode is illegal and turned off. (if we remember Ferrari's RW sizes, but need to compare which one RB brought) .
One thing is bad for me now: Why information about engine power/torque/DF-drag levels are closed to all? What would be if FIA tells for example: Ferrari engine 1050h.p., Mercedes 1040, Honda 1035. Italians have XXX.xx points of DF, Mercedes XXX.yy, RB XXX.zzz, Drag X, Y and Z. Even if all knows, they couldn't do anything with that info, because it doesn't give advantage.
I'm waiting for Q3 mini sector comparison on official F1 youtube channel but they are not always do it and its weird.

these pics don't give the full details and i guess you know that
at pic 1. it could be the RB can brake a fraction later then the Ferrari
at pic 2 VET takes a completly different line then Verstappen and you stopped it wrong, not at equal point and as you look closely Verstappen is earlier on the Throttle then VET.
at pic 3. again wrong point of comparison because VET already crossed that line in your pic, meaning he is already longer on the throttle
Pic 4. same as with Pic 3 wrong point of comparison

but i guess Ferrari fans will do find any kind of excuse to not telling the real thruth .... (which i can understand, it would smurk their name)

[LM10]

Ok i need to rephrase, when Ferrari started to get 6 poles out of 6 races using jetmode after the first six races after the summer break
Yes i am glad that u understand the the difference between straightline speed and faster in sector times where there are straights, coz that is what actually shows their performance in a sector with mostly straights..... coz if u just look at the top speed then Racing point have been dominating it pretty much entire season, coz ferrari use their jet mode to get the acceleration after the traction zone to reach a certain top speed faster than others and maintain it there. (not necessarily the top speed advantage).

Ferrari had poles in Bahrain and Canada with their Jet mode already, they could win there also, but technical issues/Vettel's mistake - they lost.

I don't see what are you showing me on those screenshots, where Verstappen SPD1 227km/h, Lec 159 km/h. What is it? Average speeds or what it should tell me?
Look at first 0:0 - 0:05sec of Juzh video on RB thread. https://streamable.com/1duxi https://streamable.com/1duxi
I made few screens from it, yes quality is poor also there are no 100% steady position of cars and speedometer (best comes from GPS/FIA instruments) but:
https://i.imgur.com/QkMQJcG.png Verst ~ 111km/h at that corner
https://i.imgur.com/fAmUf9x.png Vettel ~ 115
Then:
https://i.imgur.com/geKODFR.png Verst 214 near that line
https://i.imgur.com/GtQ2hhP.png Vettel 226 already and he is a bit far from line than Max.
What is it if not Ferrari's acceleration that didn't disappear after TD? If they affraid to cheat, they couldn't accelerate faster than RB if their boost mode is illegal and turned off. (if we remember Ferrari's RW sizes, but need to compare which one RB brought) .
One thing is bad for me now: Why information about engine power/torque/DF-drag levels are closed to all? What would be if FIA tells for example: Ferrari engine 1050h.p., Mercedes 1040, Honda 1035. Italians have XXX.xx points of DF, Mercedes XXX.yy, RB XXX.zzz, Drag X, Y and Z. Even if all knows, they couldn't do anything with that info, because it doesn't give advantage.
I'm waiting for Q3 mini sector comparison on official F1 youtube channel but they are not always do it and its weird.

Quote from the person who made those videos, and the one who you quoted

At 1:11 Vettel is at 192 km/h and Max at 202 km/h. Up until there Vettel was 10 or more km/h down. Then he outaccelerates him and is at 258 km/h vs. Verstappens 257 km/h. No DRS there yet and Ferrari with the clearly bigger rear wing.
Still hard to interpret what has changed, if you ask me.

Dont read too much into such precise speed readings. It's next to impossible to sync speedometers with such accuracy to be able to do point based messurements. It's possible vettel's speedo is slightly ahead and verstappen is slighty behind or vice versa. Difference might only be a tenth or two, but for F1 car that's enough to make a noticable difference.

So i will go with Juzh is saying

You should have quoted his second answer to me as well. There he told that I was right about Vettel outaccelerating Max in the hot lap, but the same couldn't simply be told about their acceleration towards finish line at the end of their out lap because we can't know which of the drivers were flat out as the ERS usage might be different.

He was refering to my detailed analysis when he wrote "precise speed readings". But it's clear that Vettel starts from lower speed and eventually is at higher speed.

[Restomaniac]

I dunno. I think the Honda has beenbgood in high altitude locations sincelast year. That may have something to do with it.

Maybe Honda have gone down the ‘supersized’ turbo route like Renault did.

[LM10]

Up until the summer break Ferrari were lost with understanding their car and getting the most out of it. In Hungary they couldn't run a little more wing compared to the rest, as the rest were all running maximum wing.

At other circuits like Spa, Japan, Monza where the corners are long and fast Ferrari were able to run a little more wing to get closer to the RB and Merc in the corners and still dominate the straights such was their power advantage.

Yes, but "a little more wing" is different to what we've seen in Austin and Brazil. Ferrari had Monaco style rear wings there. Highest downforce.

[jumpingfish]

Ok i need to rephrase, when Ferrari started to get 6 poles out of 6 races using jetmode after the first six races after the summer break
Yes i am glad that u understand the the difference between straightline speed and faster in sector times where there are straights, coz that is what actually shows their performance in a sector with mostly straights..... coz if u just look at the top speed then Racing point have been dominating it pretty much entire season, coz ferrari use their jet mode to get the acceleration after the traction zone to reach a certain top speed faster than others and maintain it there. (not necessarily the top speed advantage).

Ferrari had poles in Bahrain and Canada with their Jet mode already, they could win there also, but technical issues/Vettel's mistake - they lost.

I don't see what are you showing me on those screenshots, where Verstappen SPD1 227km/h, Lec 159 km/h. What is it? Average speeds or what it should tell me?
Look at first 0:0 - 0:05sec of Juzh video on RB thread. https://streamable.com/1duxi https://streamable.com/1duxi
I made few screens from it, yes quality is poor also there are no 100% steady position of cars and speedometer (best comes from GPS/FIA instruments) but:
https://i.imgur.com/QkMQJcG.png Verst ~ 111km/h at that corner
https://i.imgur.com/fAmUf9x.png Vettel ~ 115
Then:
https://i.imgur.com/geKODFR.png Verst 214 near that line
https://i.imgur.com/GtQ2hhP.png Vettel 226 already and he is a bit far from line than Max.
What is it if not Ferrari's acceleration that didn't disappear after TD? If they affraid to cheat, they couldn't accelerate faster than RB if their boost mode is illegal and turned off. (if we remember Ferrari's RW sizes, but need to compare which one RB brought) .
One thing is bad for me now: Why information about engine power/torque/DF-drag levels are closed to all? What would be if FIA tells for example: Ferrari engine 1050h.p., Mercedes 1040, Honda 1035. Italians have XXX.xx points of DF, Mercedes XXX.yy, RB XXX.zzz, Drag X, Y and Z. Even if all knows, they couldn't do anything with that info, because it doesn't give advantage.
I'm waiting for Q3 mini sector comparison on official F1 youtube channel but they are not always do it and its weird.

these pics don't give the full details and i guess you know that
at pic 1. it could be the RB can brake a fraction later then the Ferrari
at pic 2 VET takes a completly different line then Verstappen and you stopped it wrong, not at equal point and as you look closely Verstappen is earlier on the Throttle then VET.
at pic 3. again wrong point of comparison because VET already crossed that line in your pic, meaning he is already longer on the throttle
Pic 4. same as with Pic 3 wrong point of comparison

but i guess Ferrari fans will do find any kind of excuse to not telling the real thruth .... (which i can understand, it would smurk their name)

note: this video was made not steady (left and right sides don't match) , so to compare drivers, need to look at Max position on pic1 and Vettel's on pic2, I tried to see them on the same spot +/-, but it's hard to stop online video where I want. Also pic 3 and pic 4: Vettel didn't crossed the line yet at pic 3, look at environment, he is near that line at pic 4 but there we see bigger difference of speed between RB and Vet than on pic1-2

[siskue2005]

Ferrari had poles in Bahrain and Canada with their Jet mode already, they could win there also, but technical issues/Vettel's mistake - they lost.

I don't see what are you showing me on those screenshots, where Verstappen SPD1 227km/h, Lec 159 km/h. What is it? Average speeds or what it should tell me?
Look at first 0:0 - 0:05sec of Juzh video on RB thread. https://streamable.com/1duxi https://streamable.com/1duxi
I made few screens from it, yes quality is poor also there are no 100% steady position of cars and speedometer (best comes from GPS/FIA instruments) but:
https://i.imgur.com/QkMQJcG.png Verst ~ 111km/h at that corner
https://i.imgur.com/fAmUf9x.png Vettel ~ 115
Then:
https://i.imgur.com/geKODFR.png Verst 214 near that line
https://i.imgur.com/GtQ2hhP.png Vettel 226 already and he is a bit far from line than Max.
What is it if not Ferrari's acceleration that didn't disappear after TD? If they affraid to cheat, they couldn't accelerate faster than RB if their boost mode is illegal and turned off. (if we remember Ferrari's RW sizes, but need to compare which one RB brought) .
One thing is bad for me now: Why information about engine power/torque/DF-drag levels are closed to all? What would be if FIA tells for example: Ferrari engine 1050h.p., Mercedes 1040, Honda 1035. Italians have XXX.xx points of DF, Mercedes XXX.yy, RB XXX.zzz, Drag X, Y and Z. Even if all knows, they couldn't do anything with that info, because it doesn't give advantage.
I'm waiting for Q3 mini sector comparison on official F1 youtube channel but they are not always do it and its weird.

Quote from the person who made those videos, and the one who you quoted

Dont read too much into such precise speed readings. It's next to impossible to sync speedometers with such accuracy to be able to do point based messurements. It's possible vettel's speedo is slightly ahead and verstappen is slighty behind or vice versa. Difference might only be a tenth or two, but for F1 car that's enough to make a noticable difference.

So i will go with Juzh is saying

You should have quoted his second answer to me as well. There he told that I was right about Vettel outaccelerating Max in the hot lap, but the same couldn't simply be told about their acceleration towards finish line at the end of their out lap because we can't know which of the drivers were flat out as the ERS usage might be different.

He was refering to my detailed analysis when he wrote "precise speed readings". But it's clear that Vettel starts from lower speed and eventually is at higher speed.

You're right in the first case. he does simply out accelerate him there.
For the second case when they start the lap, you shouldn't read into it, because PUs are not flat out up until very late into the hill climb, becase it's not worth it to waste energy before the lap has even started. Last year it was only ferrari who was doing it for whatever reason and now they're all doing it.

Still what he says is different to what you claim

[LM10]

Quote from the person who made those videos, and the one who you quoted



So i will go with Juzh is saying

You should have quoted his second answer to me as well. There he told that I was right about Vettel outaccelerating Max in the hot lap, but the same couldn't simply be told about their acceleration towards finish line at the end of their out lap because we can't know which of the drivers were flat out as the ERS usage might be different.

He was refering to my detailed analysis when he wrote "precise speed readings". But it's clear that Vettel starts from lower speed and eventually is at higher speed.

You're right in the first case. he does simply out accelerate him there.
For the second case when they start the lap, you shouldn't read into it, because PUs are not flat out up until very late into the hill climb, becase it's not worth it to waste energy before the lap has even started. Last year it was only ferrari who was doing it for whatever reason and now they're all doing it.

Still what he says is different to what you claim

No, he wrote "you're right in the first case" and what he means is that I'm right about Vettel outaccelerating Max in the hot lap.

[NathanOlder]

I feel the last 3 or 4 years RedBull have developed their car far later in the season than the Red or Silver teams.

RedBull have been strong in the final few races over the last few years, only to be left behind when the new season begins.

Surely RedBull wont fall for that again??

[Mamba]

Really?
Lets look at the races where ferrari has been on pole and lost the race, shall we?

1. Bahrain > Lost the race due to poor reliability (not due to poor tyre usage!) Agreed here.
2. Canada > Lost the race due to penalty (not due to poor tyre usage!) Agreed here.
3. Austria > Lost the race due to pitting earlier than Max (Red Bull better on their tyres, 1st stint longer thus better on tyres. Marginally I admit.)
5. Russia > Lost the race due to poor reliability (not due to poor tyre usage!) I said so in my post...
6. Japan > Lost the race due to poor start and crash (not due to poor tyre usage!) Why do you think they would have won here? Their tyres simply did not keep as well as those on the Mercs did. Merc could still have won here with a longer first stint. A better start than they had in no way means a win.
7. Mexico > Lost the race due to poor strategy and superior driving for the competitors (So your competitors being able to make their tyres last does not count as being better on their tyres?)

In Spa, Lewis was getting closer and closer only coz he pitted later, coz when they were on equal tyres they both were a match fo race pace I did not watch entire race, but again. Being able to pit later means you are easier on your tyres.

in Monza, Lewis was faster i agree, but they still won it due to some rule-bending and also massive speed in the DRS zone, as the following car didnot even got side by side even with DRS and slipstream Ferrari set their car up to deploy max on the straight here. Plus better acceleration out of the parabolica.

In Singapore, they still won with good strategy and being faster where it matters.Were this a track where you could overtake easier, I doubt they would have won. But they were the best overall, agreed.

Mexico, it was a blunder to allow Lewis undercut them, that is what lost them the race! Merc or Lewis could make the tyres last. They didn't have the pace to overhaul them. Max had blistering fast pace, but he was way too far back.


So from this we can see that being faster in qualy and also being faster in the places where it mattered will surely has higher chance of them winning the race!!!!

So it seems really poor way to break this strategy of poles and winning the race and going slower in quly and even more slower in the race!

We can all see they seem to have lost some advantage. But it is a bit difficult to lay that simply by the TD's only. Remember, they started going down before even the TD's came out. Lost pole in Mexico and Friday practise race pace in Austin was already not looking very good. All this before the TD's came out.