Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[GhostF1]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14728 ... tra-sensor

Formula 1 teams will be required to run a second fuel-flow sensor next season as the FIA escalates its efforts to prevent the rules being exploited for performance gains.

The entire fuel flow thing just got weird!

To be honest, it's not out of the question to think this is in response to finding something on the PU they took. To avoid scandal, uproar and maintain certain manufacturer reputations, not to mention the FIA themselves, this will be swept under the rug and the solution is a second sensor.

Imagine they announce Ferrari have been cheating, they will never ever do that. The damage that would cause.. and teams and fans alike will lose faith in the FIA's ability to police the regs and there would be calls to have Fez disqualified from the season.

Not suggesting they have found anything, but it is definitely the more likely scenario. Nothing will go public..

Also Bill.. Honda have no engine block size restriction on the turbo/compressor, only the MGU-H resides within the block. The turbo/comp hang out either side.

[djones]

It really annoys me that Ferrari was stupid enough to introduce this feature halfway through a season they could never win.

If they introduced this at the first race next year they would have had a significant advantage for at least 10 races.

[Xwang]

It really annoys me that Ferrari was stupid enough to introduce this feature halfway through a season they could never win.

If they introduced this at the first race next year they would have had a significant advantage for at least 10 races.

This has a sense if you are assuming that Ferrari is guilty even thought nobody has officially said that at the moment.
Maybe is Honda that have used something borderline which FIA wants to stop for the next year (at the beginning of the season Honda was very distant in performance from Mercedes and now they are at the same level ... if we kept taking for true what Mercedes says of rivals or maybe some RB requests have been blocked from previous TDs and others one have been blocked from the next year with this new TD and since they have told that it not possible to install a second flow meter for the next and last GP of the year, they have postponed the effects of the TD to next year which has a sense).

[PlatinumZealot]

It really annoys me that Ferrari was stupid enough to introduce this feature halfway through a season they could never win.

If they introduced this at the first race next year they would have had a significant advantage for at least 10 races.

People are saying they had it from last year.

[LM10]

It really annoys me that Ferrari was stupid enough to introduce this feature halfway through a season they could never win.

If they introduced this at the first race next year they would have had a significant advantage for at least 10 races.

People are saying they had it from last year.

Which people?

But it's clear that Ferrari has had a power advantage since last year. Last year the focus entirely was on finding some trickery in their battery system. This year that switched to fuel and oil trickery. Next year we will see part 3 of finding out what supposed cheats Ferrari might use.

[Capharol]

and all we do is assuming this, assuming that and some ppl are even stating it as a fact....

fact is .... nobody here knows what exactly is going on, nobody knows if these TD's are really put Ferrari back.
nobody knows which 3rd engine the FIA took as comparison (and it was NO investigation, just a comparison between an Ferrari PU, a customer Ferrari PU and a 3rd unknown PU)....

everybody is guessing and thinking after a while the guessing is the truth, why not stay with the facts WE ALL know and not some assumptions

[bluechris]

Guys really this is great speculation thread, continue I'm impressed.
Does anyone here of the gurus and the people who are certain that Ferrari is cheating, perhaps knows the Greek lotto numbers of Sunday? After all this crucial info that i read here, this will make me extremely happy.

[subcritical71]

Guys really this is great speculation thread, continue I'm impressed.
Does anyone here of the gurus and the people who are certain that Ferrari is cheating, perhaps knows the Greek lotto numbers of Sunday? After all this crucial info that i read here, this will make me extremely happy.

Most of the talk here is going to be speculation. What if any real substance can be gleaned from factual sources (what would you consider a factual source - I would not include any un-cited media article)? I don't think anyone of the 'gurus' has stated that Ferrari or any team is cheating. The F1 media have pushed a non-cited article. Most here are going to speculate on what it could mean and in this thread it will be on a very technical level (for the most part). Some people get bent because they don't like hearing their team in a negative light. I get it, but in a technical discussion you have to remove your bias as much as possible and have a good technical discussion.

[El Scorchio]

It really annoys me that Ferrari was stupid enough to introduce this feature halfway through a season they could never win.

If they introduced this at the first race next year they would have had a significant advantage for at least 10 races.

Alternatively though, maybe it's smarter to test the legality when there's nothing to lose, rather than risk the ignominy of being booted out of the championships when leading, or docked hundreds of points if they did experiment with something like this next year.

[bluechris]

Guys really this is great speculation thread, continue I'm impressed.
Does anyone here of the gurus and the people who are certain that Ferrari is cheating, perhaps knows the Greek lotto numbers of Sunday? After all this crucial info that i read here, this will make me extremely happy.

Most of the talk here is going to be speculation. What if any real substance can be gleaned from factual sources (what would you consider a factual source - I would not include any un-cited media article)? I don't think anyone of the 'gurus' has stated that Ferrari or any team is cheating. The F1 media have pushed a non-cited article. Most here are going to speculate on what it could mean and in this thread it will be on a very technical level (for the most part). Some people get bent because they don't like hearing their team in a negative light. I get it, but in a technical discussion you have to remove your bias as much as possible and have a good technical discussion.

Most of the rumors are started from Toto and RB. Each one has his one agenda. Toto because of mind games and RB because they had use in 4 cars 30 engines and even though Max is 3nd in championship because of Ferrari incompetence (both team and drivers) they still need to show that they have a fast engine with the ability to run 6 races straight.

I like to see facts and i don't see facts at all but instead i read people writing that Ferrari is cheating without any proof. If you step back and see the big picture, Ferrari has a good engine in a low drag concept. In the last races they tried to raise the overall downforce and in Brazil we saw not a rear wing but an air brake in the back of the car. That helped them gain a bit of turning ability but they kept the highest speeds. What that says? It says that nothing changed as matter the engine power and i expect from them the same in the last race. Spain practise for 2020 will not be enough.

[Capharol]

Most of the rumors are started from Toto and RB. Each one has his one agenda. Toto because of mind games and RB because they had use in 4 cars 30 engines and even though Max is 3nd in championship because of Ferrari incompetence (both team and drivers) they still need to show that they have a fast engine with the ability to run 6 races straight.

you believe it yourself?

Honda-RB and Mercedes just want to have fair playground and if this means Ferrari found a loophole .... good, and if others found that loophole too but a bit later, it then has to be allowed to be reproduced by every PU-Manufacturer.
And that was what they wanted to find out by asking the FIA if some things were legal or not, if not and Ferrari used that..... well then Ferrari lost that loophole

I like to see facts and i don't see facts at all but instead i read people writing that Ferrari is cheating without any proof. If you step back and see the big picture, Ferrari has a good engine in a low drag concept. In the last races they tried to raise the overall downforce and in Brazil we saw not a rear wing but an air brake in the back of the car. That helped them gain a bit of turning ability but they kept the highest speeds. What that says? It says that nothing changed as matter the engine power and i expect from them the same in the last race. Spain practise for 2020 will not be enough.

who is saying here Ferrari cheated..... I have not read the word cheating here, it is SUSPICIOUSthat ones of a sudden the straight speed advantage went from 0.6-0.8s back to 0.2-0.3s AFTER the TD's were released, maybe it was the track charasteric, maybe it was the different setup, Ferrari used.... but it still is SUSPICIOUS

lets put it differently, if Ferrari can get their advantage back (0.6-0.8s) on the straights, then but only then voices will calm down and might stop accusing Ferrari or being suspicious
as you see i never wrote cheating, and maybe some drivers spoke out directly (maybe not that good) what everybody else was thinking.

[Bill]

Honda spec 1 run from Australia to Canada 6 races competitively other than that you are not compelled to use 3 engines. you can use more tactically like changing a pu when they is a high probability of safety car (rain) .Mercedes would have been better if they changed Bottas engine rather have him retired, same can be said about Ferrari especially Vettel so many retirement they should have squeezed in a new pu.

[bluechris]

Most of the rumors are started from Toto and RB. Each one has his one agenda. Toto because of mind games and RB because they had use in 4 cars 30 engines and even though Max is 3nd in championship because of Ferrari incompetence (both team and drivers) they still need to show that they have a fast engine with the ability to run 6 races straight.

you believe it yourself?

Honda-RB and Mercedes just want to have fair playground and if this means Ferrari found a loophole .... good, and if others found that loophole too but a bit later, it then has to be allowed to be reproduced by every PU-Manufacturer.
And that was what they wanted to find out by asking the FIA if some things were legal or not, if not and Ferrari used that..... well then Ferrari lost that loophole

I like to see facts and i don't see facts at all but instead i read people writing that Ferrari is cheating without any proof. If you step back and see the big picture, Ferrari has a good engine in a low drag concept. In the last races they tried to raise the overall downforce and in Brazil we saw not a rear wing but an air brake in the back of the car. That helped them gain a bit of turning ability but they kept the highest speeds. What that says? It says that nothing changed as matter the engine power and i expect from them the same in the last race. Spain practise for 2020 will not be enough.

who is saying here Ferrari cheated..... I have not read the word cheating here, it is SUSPICIOUSthat ones of a sudden the straight speed advantage went from 0.6-0.8s back to 0.2-0.3s AFTER the TD's were released, maybe it was the track charasteric, maybe it was the different setup, Ferrari used.... but it still is SUSPICIOUS

lets put it differently, if Ferrari can get their advantage back (0.6-0.8s) on the straights, then but only then voices will calm down and might stop accusing Ferrari or being suspicious
as you see i never wrote cheating, and maybe some drivers spoke out directly (maybe not that good) what everybody else was thinking.

Mercedes and Rb want a fair playground? This is news. No they want to win m8 and when someone surpassed them they start to throw mud in the fan. Where did you see a proof of Ferrari doing anything? Really i want this info where the last year's Ferrari found herself with a trick or something? Please I'm all ears. That's why i said step back and see the big picture and i suggest to see the Ferrari wings in the last 2 races, all the nuances will vanish.

Anyway we are off topic except if this topic is chit chat Ferrari engine rumors.

[Capharol]

Most of the rumors are started from Toto and RB. Each one has his one agenda. Toto because of mind games and RB because they had use in 4 cars 30 engines and even though Max is 3nd in championship because of Ferrari incompetence (both team and drivers) they still need to show that they have a fast engine with the ability to run 6 races straight.

you believe it yourself?

Honda-RB and Mercedes just want to have fair playground and if this means Ferrari found a loophole .... good, and if others found that loophole too but a bit later, it then has to be allowed to be reproduced by every PU-Manufacturer.
And that was what they wanted to find out by asking the FIA if some things were legal or not, if not and Ferrari used that..... well then Ferrari lost that loophole

I like to see facts and i don't see facts at all but instead i read people writing that Ferrari is cheating without any proof. If you step back and see the big picture, Ferrari has a good engine in a low drag concept. In the last races they tried to raise the overall downforce and in Brazil we saw not a rear wing but an air brake in the back of the car. That helped them gain a bit of turning ability but they kept the highest speeds. What that says? It says that nothing changed as matter the engine power and i expect from them the same in the last race. Spain practise for 2020 will not be enough.

who is saying here Ferrari cheated..... I have not read the word cheating here, it is SUSPICIOUSthat ones of a sudden the straight speed advantage went from 0.6-0.8s back to 0.2-0.3s AFTER the TD's were released, maybe it was the track charasteric, maybe it was the different setup, Ferrari used.... but it still is SUSPICIOUS

lets put it differently, if Ferrari can get their advantage back (0.6-0.8s) on the straights, then but only then voices will calm down and might stop accusing Ferrari or being suspicious
as you see i never wrote cheating, and maybe some drivers spoke out directly (maybe not that good) what everybody else was thinking.

Mercedes and Rb want a fair playground? This is news. No they want to win m8 and when someone surpassed them they start to throw mud in the fan. Where did you see a proof of Ferrari doing anything? Really i want this info where the last year's Ferrari found herself with a trick or something? Please I'm all ears. That's why i said step back and see the big picture and i suggest to see the Ferrari wings in the last 2 races, all the nuances will vanish.

Anyway we are off topic except if this topic is chit chat Ferrari engine rumors.

agreed and excuses for the off topic

[LM10]

lets put it differently, if Ferrari can get their advantage back (0.6-0.8s) on the straights, then but only then voices will calm down and might stop accusing Ferrari or being suspicious
as you see i never wrote cheating, and maybe some drivers spoke out directly (maybe not that good) what everybody else was thinking.

If that's the only way to calm down the voices then I doubt it.
It actually surprises me reading posts which only focus on one side of the coin, that being the straight line advantage of Ferrari. Many of those posts seem to either ignore or forget the other side which is cornering performance. If Ferrari more or less matches Mercedes and almost matches Redbull in the corners by installing a monster rear wing, how are they going to keep their massive straight line speed? Gaining 0.6-0.8 seconds on the straights and not really losing any time in the corners would result in pole positions with a time difference of at least 5 tenths on most tracks against highly competitive top cars of RBR and Mercedes. That surely is not going to happen.