2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

[LM10]

This is ridiculous. 5kg that nobody knows about and that you are free to burn extra. This would have given them bragging right “see, no cheating” If undiscovered. Now they are discovered and still no penalty. A big shame and a very big shadow over the second half of this season.

I’m pretty sure the weight of the cars are always measured before and after the sessions. It’s not like Ferrari has overfueled in all prior 20 races.

[Sieper]

This is ridiculous. 5kg that nobody knows about and that you are free to burn extra. This would have given them bragging right “see, no cheating” If undiscovered. Now they are discovered and still no penalty. A big shame and a very big shadow over the second half of this season.

I’m pretty sure the weight of the cars are always measured before and after the sessions. It’s not like Ferrari has overfueled in all prior 20 races.

And I am pretty sure that If Lec would have been fast today burning his undetected extra 5kg of fuel it would have given Ferrari the opportunity to say “see, no cheating”. It was worth the risk. That they got a super cheap penalty doesn’t actually matter. They got caught redhanded.

[turbof1]

This is ridiculous. 5kg that nobody knows about and that you are free to burn extra. This would have given them bragging right “see, no cheating” If undiscovered. Now they are discovered and still no penalty. A big shame and a very big shadow over the second half of this season.

I’m pretty sure the weight of the cars are always measured before and after the sessions. It’s not like Ferrari has overfueled in all prior 20 races.

I believe the checks are random. Several cars are being checked before the race, but not all of them.

So they definitely did not exceed the 110kg, else they would had to disqualify Leclerc. The regulation is clear about this:

30.5 No car is permitted to consume more than 110kg of fuel, from the time at which the signal to start the race is given to the time each car crosses the Line after the end‐of‐race signal has been given. Other than in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards), any driver exceeding this limit will be disqualified from the race results.

So it's more of a discrepancy between measurements, with the highest number under 110kg, or otherwise a mistake of the ferrari staff. Still, it sets a bit of a bad precedent you can give wrong number and afterwards pay it off without reporcussions on your race result.

[Wass85]

Listen Hamilton has driven very well but it's not a given he's been the best driver this season.

Max has a reasonable shout at that and so does Leclerc considering the circumstances.

On one hand you have to give it to Lewis because of his consistency on a Sunday but for the most part he's had the best race car.

Does that top Max's relentless speed with a few errors which are down to overdriving?

What about Leclerc getting 7 poles and beating a 4x world champion in his first season in the team?

I guess it depends on what metrics you want to use. I absolutely agree that Leclerc and Verstappen had an excellent season with only a few mistakes blighting their performance, especially Leclerc in his first season in the Ferrari, second season in F1, under the huge microscope of the Italian press and up against a well-established WDC. In the context of such a young, inexperienced driver, that's probably the greatest achievement this year. I can't wait to see how quickly he develops and I wouldn't be surprised to see him lifting the WDC next year.

Looking down the grid there are other names that also jump out. But, if you aren't going to award best driver to the driver who turns in the best consistent performance at the sharp end then it's not a universal metric and the whole thing becomes entirely subjective (not necessarily a bad thing, but something that should be acknowledged).

Yep it's entirely subjective isn't it, all the top drivers would win in the best car it really is that simple.

[izzy]

it was a breach of the International Sporting Code, not the F1 Sporting Regulations, and it was this one:
12.1.1.i Failure to follow the instructions of the relevant
officials for the safe and orderly conduct of the Event.

so it wasn't actually carrying more fuel, just mis-declaring it. How do we estimate what another team would've got? i don't suppose there are any precedents to judge it by

[dans79]

didn't Jordan get disqualified after a race for having a second tank with extra fuel in it or something like that?

[siskue2005]

didn't Jordan get disqualified after a race for having a second tank with extra fuel in it or something like that?

Wasn't it BAR Honda in 2005?

[turbof1]

it was a breach of the International Sporting Code, not the F1 Sporting Regulations, and it was this one:
12.1.1.i Failure to follow the instructions of the relevant
officials for the safe and orderly conduct of the Event.

so it wasn't actually carrying more fuel, just mis-declaring it. How do we estimate what another team would've got? i don't suppose there are any precedents to judge it by

Very good find.

It is maybe not as black and white as I initially assumed. I have to say though, FIA made a mess about having fuel related issues governed by 3 different rule books .

[foxmulder_ms]

All the poles and wins Ferrari had this season means ZERO to me. I am convinced they were cheating.

Overall great season for Ham really hope he repeats it next season, too.

I am sad to see Hulk leaving. I think he is better than ~half of the field.

Happy to see Ocon coming back although I am pretty sure he is not a championship material. Hope Renault does a much better job next year. I would love to see them hiring Newey

[izzy]

didn't Jordan get disqualified after a race for having a second tank with extra fuel in it or something like that?

oh yes, well remembered i had to look it up, tho in fact it was so they could run underweight. Different ballgame really and Tech Regs

[turbof1]

didn't Jordan get disqualified after a race for having a second tank with extra fuel in it or something like that?

Wasn't it BAR Honda in 2005?

They were banned for being underweight. BAR argued they could not run the engine below 6kg of fuel, which they counted towards the car's weight. The second tank was there to make sure the 6kg could not be extracted. Here is a drawing of it:


A fool can only try to sell that .

Edit: god damnit Izzy, stop being so awesome.

[izzy]

They were banned for being underweight. BAR argued they could not run the engine below 6kg of fuel, which they counted towards the car's weight. The second tank was there to make sure the 6kg could not be extracted. Here is a drawing of it:
https://f1tcdn.net/images/news/2018/intext/bar-007.png

A fool can only try to sell that .

Edit: god damnit Izzy, stop being so awesome.

hey me and my phone, we know everything ever

[smellybeard]

IMHO - hit them with a €5M fine for persistent under-declaration and see how often it happens in the future.

Exactly.

[TNTHead]

Edit: XXXXXXXX Izzy, stop being so awesome.

Moderator, is that you? Dude, why are you're using so many curse words ?

[NathanOlder]

I'm not good with weights, is 4.88kg a lot?

More than 4% of total weight. That is not just a simple mistake. Although we are talking about a team where a mechanic forgot to put his gloves on in a DOUBLE pit stop when handling 100 degrees celcius rubber (check the footage of the long Vettel stop )

Its only like just over 0.5% of total car weight. so not too much to fuss about. The car was over the minimum car weight, so its not a big issue.