Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[saviour stivala]

I believe it’s not the reason, but seems strange to under report a fuel mass when your being questioned openly about altering fuel flow measurements.

The fuel load have nothing to do with fuel flow. In fact since the start of the fuel flow formula a FERRARI car or a car using a FERRARI engine are the only type that didn’t as yet breached the fuel flow rules with the resultant disqualifications.

Really? If I have 5 more kilos of unaccounted for fuel what could I do with that unaccounted for fuel if I can pass more fuel than is measured by the FIA sensor? hmmmm!
Again, I said I don’t believe this is the reason, just that it doesn’t look good, and they are the first and only manufacturer to be seen outside the rules in this regard.

But still nothing to do with max fuel flow/hour and still doesn't involve the flow meter reading of neither race fuel load nor the max fuel flow.

[LM10]

So let me try to understand this. After the TD about fuel flow meter was appointed people told that Ferrari lost power because they stopped tricking it. Now Ferrari still tricks another FIA sensor? What now, did they lose power or not? Oh man...

[hape]

So let me try to understand this. After the TD about fuel flow meter was appointed people told that Ferrari lost power because they stopped tricking it. Now Ferrari still tricks another FIA sensor? What now, did they lose power or not? Oh man...

Exactly that. It doesn’t make sense to see a correlation between the fuel meter TD and what happened today but maybe someone here is brighter.

[MtthsMlw]

The TD from Mexico was about the instantaneous fuel flow rate of 100kg/h.
The infringement here was that Ferrari could have used more than 110kg fuel in the race.
They said for example we've put 110kg of fuel in the tank but the FIA measured it at 115kg.
If the FIA hadn't measured that Ferrari could potentially use more than 110kg but they didn't, as Leclerc was checked afterwards and the difference wasn't bigger than 110kg.

I don't think they tried to cheat, it was a human error somewhere.

[LM10]

The TD from Mexico was about the instantaneous fuel flow rate of 100kg/h.
The infringement here was that Ferrari could have used more than 110kg fuel in the race.
They said for example we've put 110kg of fuel in the tank but the FIA measured it at 115kg.
If the FIA hadn't measured that Ferrari could potentially use more than 110kg but they didn't, as Leclerc was checked afterwards and the difference wasn't bigger than 110kg.

I don't think they tried to cheat, it was a human error somewhere.

Ferrari seems to be a really dirty team then.

First tried to cheat the fuel flow meter and then started to trick the other sensor! Maybe they even were tricking both sensors at the same time. In reality their PU is 30 kW down on others.

[henry]

There seems to be some misunderstanding of how the relevant TD works.

As well as measuring the flow rate and total mass of fuel used during the race (<110kg) the FFS measures the total fuel used from when the car is filled in the pits to when the motor stops at the end of the race.

To check latter value is accurate the process would be to measure the fuel in the car after filling and again at the end of the race. This is a time an personnel intensive process so the FIA ask the teams to report the fuel they put in, its not clear if they also report the fuel left or whether the FIA measure every car. The difference between the two measurements is expected to be the same as the value reported by the FFS.

To make sure the teams are reporting accurately the FIA can randomly select a car immediately after it is filled and empty it and measure the fuel mass. This is what was done to Leclerc’s car.

It doesn’t matter what the fill mass is so long as when you subtract the mass left after the race the value matches what the FFS reports.

[El Scorchio]

There seems to be some misunderstanding of how the relevant TD works.

As well as measuring the flow rate and total mass of fuel used during the race (<110kg) the FFS measures the total fuel used from when the car is filled in the pits to when the motor stops at the end of the race.

To check latter value is accurate the process would be to measure the fuel in the car after filling and again at the end of the race. This is a time an personnel intensive process so the FIA ask the teams to report the fuel they put in, its not clear if they also report the fuel left or whether the FIA measure every car. The difference between the two measurements is expected to be the same as the value reported by the FFS.

To make sure the teams are reporting accurately the FIA can randomly select a car immediately after it is filled and empty it and measure the fuel mass. This is what was done to Leclerc’s car.

It doesn’t matter what the fill mass is so long as when you subtract the mass left after the race the value matches what the FFS reports.

So essentially it's 'on trust' as to what the teams say is in their car, combined with the fuel flow sensor to check how much is used, aside from random checks? Huge hole there, IF a team find a way to manipulate the sensor readings or temmporarily bypass it....

[henry]

There seems to be some misunderstanding of how the relevant TD works.

As well as measuring the flow rate and total mass of fuel used during the race (<110kg) the FFS measures the total fuel used from when the car is filled in the pits to when the motor stops at the end of the race.

To check latter value is accurate the process would be to measure the fuel in the car after filling and again at the end of the race. This is a time an personnel intensive process so the FIA ask the teams to report the fuel they put in, its not clear if they also report the fuel left or whether the FIA measure every car. The difference between the two measurements is expected to be the same as the value reported by the FFS.

To make sure the teams are reporting accurately the FIA can randomly select a car immediately after it is filled and empty it and measure the fuel mass. This is what was done to Leclerc’s car.

It doesn’t matter what the fill mass is so long as when you subtract the mass left after the race the value matches what the FFS reports.

So essentially it's 'on trust' as to what the teams say is in their car, combined with the fuel flow sensor to check how much is used, aside from random checks? Huge hole there, IF a team find a way to manipulate the sensor readings or temmporarily bypass it....

The random check is to ensure that the teams can be “trusted”.

It’s the same as weight. They make random checks to make sure the teams are above minimum weight. I think they’re all checked at the end of the race but I’m not sure.

It’s actually how ALL of the technical regs work. The teams are responsible for their cars being legal and the FIA makes random checks to reassure themselves, and the other teams, that the cars really are legal.

[El Scorchio]

There seems to be some misunderstanding of how the relevant TD works.

As well as measuring the flow rate and total mass of fuel used during the race (<110kg) the FFS measures the total fuel used from when the car is filled in the pits to when the motor stops at the end of the race.

To check latter value is accurate the process would be to measure the fuel in the car after filling and again at the end of the race. This is a time an personnel intensive process so the FIA ask the teams to report the fuel they put in, its not clear if they also report the fuel left or whether the FIA measure every car. The difference between the two measurements is expected to be the same as the value reported by the FFS.

To make sure the teams are reporting accurately the FIA can randomly select a car immediately after it is filled and empty it and measure the fuel mass. This is what was done to Leclerc’s car.

It doesn’t matter what the fill mass is so long as when you subtract the mass left after the race the value matches what the FFS reports.

So essentially it's 'on trust' as to what the teams say is in their car, combined with the fuel flow sensor to check how much is used, aside from random checks? Huge hole there, IF a team find a way to manipulate the sensor readings or temmporarily bypass it....

The random check is to ensure that the teams can be “trusted”.

It’s the same as weight. They make random checks to make sure the teams are above minimum weight. I think they’re all checked at the end of the race but I’m not sure.

It’s actually how ALL of the technical regs work. The teams are responsible for their cars being legal and the FIA makes random checks to reassure themselves, and the other teams, that the cars really are legal.

Thanks for the info!
Seems crazy, in a sport that demands such precision and accuracy in so many things and where competitors are so renowned for pushing limits and finding loopholes that there is such an allowance for self policing.I suppose there's only so much that can actually be checked by the powers that be, given time and resource constraints.

[subcritical71]

5kg extra used used during WOT through the race would be in the ballpark of 40kW.

Which is on par for the after summer power boost that was seen.

[turbof1]

Let us not confuse peak power with average power. Having 5kg more on board will not result in a performance gain in the highest engine mode; it will however allow to use the higher modes more often.

[saviour stivala]

Let us not confuse peak power with average power. Having 5kg more on board will not result in a performance gain in the highest engine mode; it will however allow to use the higher modes more often.

Yes. Understood and correct. and I am sure that there is no confusing. But pushing the possibility of “5 kg extra fuel used” is good to re-kick-start the speculations.

[turbof1]

Another thing I'd like to adress: they did not put in more than 110kg (according to the measurement of the FIA anyway). Should that have been the case, Leclerc would have been disqualified as the sporting regulations specifically state this.

Izzy clarified that Ferrari got the penalty on the base of the International Sporting Code:

it was a breach of the International Sporting Code, not the F1 Sporting Regulations, and it was this one:
12.1.1.i Failure to follow the instructions of the relevant
officials for the safe and orderly conduct of the Event.

so it wasn't actually carrying more fuel, just mis-declaring it. How do we estimate what another team would've got? i don't suppose there are any precedents to judge it by

I have to say, I'm a little bit annoyed that matters regarding fuel are governed by 3 different rule books.

For the record, unaccounted fuel in the pre race measurements still has to pass the fuel sensor. It's not like you get to use that fuel to exceed the 100kg/h.

[henry]

5kg extra used used during WOT through the race would be in the ballpark of 40kW.

Which is on par for the after summer power boost that was seen.

Indeed. However it does rather require the opportunity to burn the fuel at the increased and undetectable rate. If, for instance there were a safety car or two, reducing the overall WOT time, there would be more fuel left at the end and a discrepancy between it and the FFS based sum.

I think finger trouble is a more likely cause than conspiracy.

[turbof1]

I think finger trouble is a more likely cause than conspiracy.

That or some measurement equipment not working properly. It was curious however Ferrari trying to argue Technical Directives cannot be legally enforced. Source: https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... e-notebook

At 6:40.