2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[proteus]

I would say that Norris would need to improve quite a bit in 2020 and show he can fight Sainz in both qualifying as in the race. If not, I wouldn’t be surprised if McLaren would indeed sign Vettel for 2021.

I do think however, that the talent in Norris is definitely there. He has shown this on numerous occasions, especially in Spa. He has finished his rookie season (in which he hasn’t really made many mistakes), he has gotten used to the team, to the car and to the circuits F1 drives at across the season. All this will help him a lot in 2020. But there are no more excuses. If he cannot push Sainz in race pace, someone else needs to. And in contrast to what many people feel, I do think Vettel belongs to the top drivers out there, as long as the car is to his liking. We’ve seen this in Red Bull years. Yes, those cars were great, but also look how good he was at driving it. Other than that, he brings a lot of experience with him that we can always take advantage of.

So I have absolutely no negative feelings towards Vettel driving for McLaren. But it’s not necessary if Norris starts fighting Sainz in 2020. I do think that if this were to happen, you could say goodbye to the positive atmosphere between them that is used as an argument to retain both. There will be fireworks, and it will be interesting to see how Seidl manages that.

Think they would take Alonso back first.

Norris is still much a work in progress. Norris didn't match Sainz the whole 2nd part of the season in either the race or Quali. It took Sainz 1/2 the year to get used to the car. Then he dominated.

It will be something to watch next year.

Why would anyone with his right mind take a 40 year old driver anyway? Other teams tend to take them younger and younger, and Mclaren will screw them all over by taking theirs out of retirement homes instead. Take that for superior team managment.....

[SmallSoldier]

They both had to get used to the car, so you're saying Norris did it better than Sainz?

Also in qualifying, wasn't Norris better than Sainz this year?

Also I seem to remember Norris having more of the car mechanical problems than Sainz? And when Norris did have issues he was often in good points scoring positions. Lando also seemed to be used more in strategies ect.

To be clear, I'm not taking anything away from Sainz, he did an amazing job this year, definitely top 3 or 4 for driver of the year, and he performed better than Norris over the year as a whole, as expected. But for people to say Lando needs to up his game is a little bit of a wind up surely?

Both of them had their fair share of issues... Nevertheless, I would say that even though Carlos outperformed Landó this year, if we consider that this was Lando’s first year in F1, what he did is quiet an achievement.

I would say that if they are close to each other performance wise or Carlos with an slight edge against Lando and you had the chance to get a proven commodity as RIC or VET, I would keep Lando... He has a larger ceiling in F1 by how his first season progressed and he could become a “house” driver for Mclaren.


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[Big Tea]

I would say that Norris would need to improve quite a bit in 2020 and show he can fight Sainz in both qualifying as in the race. If not, I wouldn’t be surprised if McLaren would indeed sign Vettel for 2021.

I do think however, that the talent in Norris is definitely there. He has shown this on numerous occasions, especially in Spa. He has finished his rookie season (in which he hasn’t really made many mistakes), he has gotten used to the team, to the car and to the circuits F1 drives at across the season. All this will help him a lot in 2020. But there are no more excuses. If he cannot push Sainz in race pace, someone else needs to. And in contrast to what many people feel, I do think Vettel belongs to the top drivers out there, as long as the car is to his liking. We’ve seen this in Red Bull years. Yes, those cars were great, but also look how good he was at driving it. Other than that, he brings a lot of experience with him that we can always take advantage of.

So I have absolutely no negative feelings towards Vettel driving for McLaren. But it’s not necessary if Norris starts fighting Sainz in 2020. I do think that if this were to happen, you could say goodbye to the positive atmosphere between them that is used as an argument to retain both. There will be fireworks, and it will be interesting to see how Seidl manages that.

Think they would take Alonso back first.

Norris is still much a work in progress. Norris didn't match Sainz the whole 2nd part of the season in either the race or Quali. It took Sainz 1/2 the year to get used to the car. Then he dominated.

It will be something to watch next year.

Why would anyone with his right mind take a 40 year old driver anyway? Other teams tend to take them younger and younger, and Mclaren will screw them all over by taking theirs out of retirement homes instead. Take that for superior team managment.....

I believe the only reason to take on Alonso (or any other past driver) would be to attract sponsors with the name.
It now seems though as Mclaren do not need this sort of tool, so nothing to gain by taking him and much to loose upsetting a very useful and stable looking unit.

[diffuser]

Think they would take Alonso back first.

Norris is still much a work in progress. Norris didn't match Sainz the whole 2nd part of the season in either the race or Quali. It took Sainz 1/2 the year to get used to the car. Then he dominated.

It will be something to watch next year.

You could be right about them taking back Alonso first. If that's an option, they should take it. I'm just not entirely sure whether Fernando would like to return to McLaren. I think that if he returns, he would like to do so at Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes. McLaren would only be an option to him if they could close the gap in 2020.

I believe it would certainly be good for the sport if he were to return, but only if he could fight at the front this time out. If Mercedes or Red Bull cared about the sport in any way, they would have signed Alonso next to Hamilton or Verstappen a long time ago. It's ridiculous we have great drivers outside of F1, who are lacking a seat in F1 because Toto Wolf needs to keep his mediocre protege in the Mercedes.

I agree with others we should not judge Norris too quick and I am not. But this is McLaren. 2020 will be his second season. If next season he does not show he belongs to the top of F1, a top team should search for another top driver. Because the likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen didn't need more than 2 seasons to prove they belong to drive for the top teams. I believe that Norris can show this, but he has to do it now. This is it!

Agreed.

I think McLaren have to be thinking they want to Half the amount of time between them and the top 3 in 2020. To me that's a realistic goal. if they can do that then if either of the 2 drivers falter you have incentive for Alonso.

[SmallSoldier]

I would say that Norris would need to improve quite a bit in 2020 and show he can fight Sainz in both qualifying as in the race. If not, I wouldn’t be surprised if McLaren would indeed sign Vettel for 2021.

I do think however, that the talent in Norris is definitely there. He has shown this on numerous occasions, especially in Spa. He has finished his rookie season (in which he hasn’t really made many mistakes), he has gotten used to the team, to the car and to the circuits F1 drives at across the season. All this will help him a lot in 2020. But there are no more excuses. If he cannot push Sainz in race pace, someone else needs to. And in contrast to what many people feel, I do think Vettel belongs to the top drivers out there, as long as the car is to his liking. We’ve seen this in Red Bull years. Yes, those cars were great, but also look how good he was at driving it. Other than that, he brings a lot of experience with him that we can always take advantage of.

So I have absolutely no negative feelings towards Vettel driving for McLaren. But it’s not necessary if Norris starts fighting Sainz in 2020. I do think that if this were to happen, you could say goodbye to the positive atmosphere between them that is used as an argument to retain both. There will be fireworks, and it will be interesting to see how Seidl manages that.

Think they would take Alonso back first.

Norris is still much a work in progress. Norris didn't match Sainz the whole 2nd part of the season in either the race or Quali. It took Sainz 1/2 the year to get used to the car. Then he dominated.

It will be something to watch next year.

Why would anyone with his right mind take a 40 year old driver anyway? Other teams tend to take them younger and younger, and Mclaren will screw them all over by taking theirs out of retirement homes instead. Take that for superior team managment.....

I don’t care what their age is... If they are faster than the drivers in the car right now, they could be 80 for all it matters.

Is the trend to get them younger and younger? Seems like it, is that a recipe for success? That’s still to be determined.

Experience seems to be more important than age today... Hamilton, Carlos, Kimi, Daniel, Perez, aren’t necessarily young drivers... The only situation of a young driver outscoring an old one this season was in Ferrari.

I don’t care if they screw a young driver, as long as they get the best possible driver for the team... If that is the current line up, that’s great... If that implies changes, let’s make them.


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[diffuser]

They both had to get used to the car, so you're saying Norris did it better than Sainz?

Also in qualifying, wasn't Norris better than Sainz this year?

Also I seem to remember Norris having more of the car mechanical problems than Sainz? And when Norris did have issues he was often in good points scoring positions. Lando also seemed to be used more in strategies ect.

To be clear, I'm not taking anything away from Sainz, he did an amazing job this year, definitely top 3 or 4 for driver of the year, and he performed better than Norris over the year as a whole, as expected. But for people to say Lando needs to up his game is a little bit of a wind up surely?

Both of them had their fair share of issues... Nevertheless, I would say that even though Carlos outperformed Landó this year, if we consider that this was Lando’s first year in F1, what he did is quiet an achievement.

I would say that if they are close to each other performance wise or Carlos with an slight edge against Lando and you had the chance to get a proven commodity as RIC or VET, I would keep Lando... He has a larger ceiling in F1 by how his first season progressed and he could become a “house” driver for Mclaren.


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So we're, or at least I was, looking at a 2021 scenario that their was a large discrepancy in the performance between the two drivers in 2020. I think both drivers have showed enough to merit another year and in Norris's case even if he hadn't I would give another year..

So neither driver can sit on their laurels but Norris has more to prove... Norris was Sainz's equal for most of the first half of 2019 but Sainz Dominated in the 2nd half. So there is a trend there that Norris needs to correct/reverse.


I just threw the Alonso thing out there, I don't have any data to compare the drivers. McLaren do. I don't want Vettel that's is for sure. He has, In my opinion, imploded under pressure at Ferrari the last 2 years.

[diffuser]

Think they would take Alonso back first.

Norris is still much a work in progress. Norris didn't match Sainz the whole 2nd part of the season in either the race or Quali. It took Sainz 1/2 the year to get used to the car. Then he dominated.

It will be something to watch next year.

Why would anyone with his right mind take a 40 year old driver anyway? Other teams tend to take them younger and younger, and Mclaren will screw them all over by taking theirs out of retirement homes instead. Take that for superior team managment.....

I don’t care what their age is... If they are faster than the drivers in the car right now, they could be 80 for all it matters.

Is the trend to get them younger and younger? Seems like it, is that a recipe for success? That’s still to be determined.

Experience seems to be more important than age today... Hamilton, Carlos, Kimi, Daniel, Perez, aren’t necessarily young drivers... The only situation of a young driver outscoring an old one this season was in Ferrari.

I don’t care if they screw a young driver, as long as they get the best possible driver for the team... If that is the current line up, that’s great... If that implies changes, let’s make them.


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I agree with that too, It's stupid not to look at someone because of his age. also when you look at a driver like Max ....Even if his car better matched his challengers, his youth and lack of maturity would have been a impediment to a championship.

[AMG.Tzan]

Dump Norris??

If he doesn't improve in 2020 and finish on a regular basis inside the top 10 like Sainz well...then ok! But i think he has true pace and that showed in Qualifying! He just has to improve his race pace...and also his luck a bit
5th at Spa would have taken him up to 9th but still a long way off Sainz!

But i feel it would be wrong to dump him for Vettel in 2021 if he manages to improve! I mean Mclaren has done some silly mistakes in the past 6 years with drivers i think! Dumping Perez to get Magnussen?? Why on earth?? Dumping Vandoorne??

I think with some more support and without Alonso in there he would have done a better job than Norris this year! He won GP2 in dominating fashion and i don't believe any driver forgets how to drive...they just need the right tools and environment! Look at Gasly going back to TR...

[Ground Effect]

Dump Norris??

If he doesn't improve in 2020 and finish on a regular basis inside the top 10 like Sainz well...then ok! But i think he has true pace and that showed in Qualifying! He just has to improve his race pace...and also his luck a bit
5th at Spa would have taken him up to 9th but still a long way off Sainz!

But i feel it would be wrong to dump him for Vettel in 2021 if he manages to improve! I mean Mclaren has done some silly mistakes in the past 6 years with drivers i think! Dumping Perez to get Magnussen?? Why on earth?? Dumping Vandoorne??

I think with some more support and without Alonso in there he would have done a better job than Norris this year! He won GP2 in dominating fashion and i don't believe any driver forgets how to drive...they just need the right tools and environment! Look at Gasly going back to TR...

Didn’t Palmer win GP2? It was the right decision to drop Stoffel, in my opinion. I believe he’s a very talented driver, just not suited to this generation of F1 cars, with a lot more downforce and he seems to struggle to adapt or change his driving style to suit the 2017- cars. I also can’t accept his qualifying head to head with Fernando, 3-38, with 2 of his wins coming when Fernando was going to have grid penalties. Anyways, he’s been moaning a lot post F1, so he should be content in FE.

[McG]

Dump Norris??

If he doesn't improve in 2020 and finish on a regular basis inside the top 10 like Sainz well...then ok! But i think he has true pace and that showed in Qualifying! He just has to improve his race pace...and also his luck a bit
5th at Spa would have taken him up to 9th but still a long way off Sainz!

But i feel it would be wrong to dump him for Vettel in 2021 if he manages to improve! I mean Mclaren has done some silly mistakes in the past 6 years with drivers i think! Dumping Perez to get Magnussen?? Why on earth?? Dumping Vandoorne??

I think with some more support and without Alonso in there he would have done a better job than Norris this year! He won GP2 in dominating fashion and i don't believe any driver forgets how to drive...they just need the right tools and environment! Look at Gasly going back to TR...

!

Bring Vandoorne back!??

!

[SmallSoldier]

They both had to get used to the car, so you're saying Norris did it better than Sainz?

Also in qualifying, wasn't Norris better than Sainz this year?

Also I seem to remember Norris having more of the car mechanical problems than Sainz? And when Norris did have issues he was often in good points scoring positions. Lando also seemed to be used more in strategies ect.

To be clear, I'm not taking anything away from Sainz, he did an amazing job this year, definitely top 3 or 4 for driver of the year, and he performed better than Norris over the year as a whole, as expected. But for people to say Lando needs to up his game is a little bit of a wind up surely?

Both of them had their fair share of issues... Nevertheless, I would say that even though Carlos outperformed Landó this year, if we consider that this was Lando’s first year in F1, what he did is quiet an achievement.

I would say that if they are close to each other performance wise or Carlos with an slight edge against Lando and you had the chance to get a proven commodity as RIC or VET, I would keep Lando... He has a larger ceiling in F1 by how his first season progressed and he could become a “house” driver for Mclaren.


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So we're, or at least I was, looking at a 2021 scenario that their was a large discrepancy in the performance between the two drivers in 2020. I think both drivers have showed enough to merit another year and in Norris's case even if he hadn't I would give another year..

So neither driver can sit on their laurels but Norris has more to prove... Norris was Sainz's equal for most of the first half of 2019 but Sainz Dominated in the 2nd half. So there is a trend there that Norris needs to correct/reverse.


I just threw the Alonso thing out there, I don't have any data to compare the drivers. McLaren do. I don't want Vettel that's is for sure. He has, In my opinion, imploded under pressure at Ferrari the last 2 years.

I don’t agree with you that Sainz “Dominated” the second half of the season... Undeniably, he outperformed Norris, but Norris wasn’t squashed by Sainz.

In Spa, Norris was comfortably finishing the race in 5th when he had mechanical issues... I would give this race to Norris

In Monza, Norris had a good race to finish in the points after starting from the back of the grid... I would tie them in performance, not fair for Carlos since a pitstop took him out of the race.

In Singapore, Carlos was unlucky and touched with Hulk, Norris managed to stay behind Albon even though, once again the pitstop was slower than the ones around him and got stuck behind GRO for a while... I would give this race to Norris

In Russia, Carlos outqualified Lando by 1 tenth... And they both managed good races from there... Carlos won Qualy and ended up ahead of Norris... I would give this one to Carlos

In Japan, Carlos also outqualified Lando by a tenth and a half... Lando’s race was over when he touched with Albon... Definitely Carlos race

In Mexico, both were having a great race P6/P7 and Lando got taken out of the race with a bad pitstop... Carlos couldn’t switch the Hards on... Not a great race for either, let’s call it a tie.

In the US, Lando was having the better weekend... A mistake in Q3 placed him behind Carlos for the race, but he drove a great race and finished ahead of Carlos... This one goes to Norris.

In Brazil, Carlos drove one of his best races... Yes, he had a little help from Lando letting him through... But this one is definitely Carlos.

In Abu Dhabi, Lando outqualified Carlos and finished ahead of him at the end of the race... Pretty close, but I would give it to Norris.

In my opinion, Norris got the upper hand in 4 races in the second half... Carlos got the upper hand in 3 and they had very similar performance (a tie) in 2 races... I don’t see Carlos domination in the second half... Did he outscored Norris? By a country mile, but the point difference doesn’t reflect what happened in the weekends.



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[AMG.Tzan]

Dump Norris??

If he doesn't improve in 2020 and finish on a regular basis inside the top 10 like Sainz well...then ok! But i think he has true pace and that showed in Qualifying! He just has to improve his race pace...and also his luck a bit
5th at Spa would have taken him up to 9th but still a long way off Sainz!

But i feel it would be wrong to dump him for Vettel in 2021 if he manages to improve! I mean Mclaren has done some silly mistakes in the past 6 years with drivers i think! Dumping Perez to get Magnussen?? Why on earth?? Dumping Vandoorne??

I think with some more support and without Alonso in there he would have done a better job than Norris this year! He won GP2 in dominating fashion and i don't believe any driver forgets how to drive...they just need the right tools and environment! Look at Gasly going back to TR...

!

Bring Vandoorne back!??

!

Hahaha oooh no no...not now!

Just keep Norris now!

[AMG.Tzan]

Dump Norris??

If he doesn't improve in 2020 and finish on a regular basis inside the top 10 like Sainz well...then ok! But i think he has true pace and that showed in Qualifying! He just has to improve his race pace...and also his luck a bit
5th at Spa would have taken him up to 9th but still a long way off Sainz!

But i feel it would be wrong to dump him for Vettel in 2021 if he manages to improve! I mean Mclaren has done some silly mistakes in the past 6 years with drivers i think! Dumping Perez to get Magnussen?? Why on earth?? Dumping Vandoorne??

I think with some more support and without Alonso in there he would have done a better job than Norris this year! He won GP2 in dominating fashion and i don't believe any driver forgets how to drive...they just need the right tools and environment! Look at Gasly going back to TR...

Didn’t Palmer win GP2? It was the right decision to drop Stoffel, in my opinion. I believe he’s a very talented driver, just not suited to this generation of F1 cars, with a lot more downforce and he seems to struggle to adapt or change his driving style to suit the 2017- cars. I also can’t accept his qualifying head to head with Fernando, 3-38, with 2 of his wins coming when Fernando was going to have grid penalties. Anyways, he’s been moaning a lot post F1, so he should be content in FE.

Indeed he did...a lot of drivers won GP2 but never did something special in F1!

I just thought Vandoorne was better...better than Grosjean, Magnussen, Stroll (ok but money), maybe Kyvat and Gasly not sure though!

In other news...i really want to see Sainz staying at Mclaren for many years and getting better and better every year! I think this team suits him a lot and he can achieve great things being the leader of the team! Hopefully Mclaren will give him the chance with a great car to achieve great things come 2021 and beyond!

[diffuser]

Both of them had their fair share of issues... Nevertheless, I would say that even though Carlos outperformed Landó this year, if we consider that this was Lando’s first year in F1, what he did is quiet an achievement.

I would say that if they are close to each other performance wise or Carlos with an slight edge against Lando and you had the chance to get a proven commodity as RIC or VET, I would keep Lando... He has a larger ceiling in F1 by how his first season progressed and he could become a “house” driver for Mclaren.


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So we're, or at least I was, looking at a 2021 scenario that their was a large discrepancy in the performance between the two drivers in 2020. I think both drivers have showed enough to merit another year and in Norris's case even if he hadn't I would give another year..

So neither driver can sit on their laurels but Norris has more to prove... Norris was Sainz's equal for most of the first half of 2019 but Sainz Dominated in the 2nd half. So there is a trend there that Norris needs to correct/reverse.


I just threw the Alonso thing out there, I don't have any data to compare the drivers. McLaren do. I don't want Vettel that's is for sure. He has, In my opinion, imploded under pressure at Ferrari the last 2 years.

I don’t agree with you that Sainz “Dominated” the second half of the season... Undeniably, he outperformed Norris, but Norris wasn’t squashed by Sainz.

In Spa, Norris was comfortably finishing the race in 5th when he had mechanical issues... I would give this race to Norris

In Monza, Norris had a good race to finish in the points after starting from the back of the grid... I would tie them in performance, not fair for Carlos since a pitstop took him out of the race.

In Singapore, Carlos was unlucky and touched with Hulk, Norris managed to stay behind Albon even though, once again the pitstop was slower than the ones around him and got stuck behind GRO for a while... I would give this race to Norris

In Russia, Carlos outqualified Lando by 1 tenth... And they both managed good races from there... Carlos won Qualy and ended up ahead of Norris... I would give this one to Carlos

In Japan, Carlos also outqualified Lando by a tenth and a half... Lando’s race was over when he touched with Albon... Definitely Carlos race

In Mexico, both were having a great race P6/P7 and Lando got taken out of the race with a bad pitstop... Carlos couldn’t switch the Hards on... Not a great race for either, let’s call it a tie.

In the US, Lando was having the better weekend... A mistake in Q3 placed him behind Carlos for the race, but he drove a great race and finished ahead of Carlos... This one goes to Norris.

In Brazil, Carlos drove one of his best races... Yes, he had a little help from Lando letting him through... But this one is definitely Carlos.

In Abu Dhabi, Lando outqualified Carlos and finished ahead of him at the end of the race... Pretty close, but I would give it to Norris.

In my opinion, Norris got the upper hand in 4 races in the second half... Carlos got the upper hand in 3 and they had very similar performance (a tie) in 2 races... I don’t see Carlos domination in the second half... Did he outscored Norris? By a country mile, but the point difference doesn’t reflect what happened in the weekends.



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He out qualified 5 to 2 or 6 to 2 on top of that..... but we're just disagreeing on the definition of dominated but we both saw the same thing.

[diffuser]

Why would anyone with his right mind take a 40 year old driver anyway? Other teams tend to take them younger and younger, and Mclaren will screw them all over by taking theirs out of retirement homes instead. Take that for superior team managment.....

I don’t care what their age is... If they are faster than the drivers in the car right now, they could be 80 for all it matters.

Is the trend to get them younger and younger? Seems like it, is that a recipe for success? That’s still to be determined.

Experience seems to be more important than age today... Hamilton, Carlos, Kimi, Daniel, Perez, aren’t necessarily young drivers... The only situation of a young driver outscoring an old one this season was in Ferrari.

I don’t care if they screw a young driver, as long as they get the best possible driver for the team... If that is the current line up, that’s great... If that implies changes, let’s make them.


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I agree with that too, It's stupid not to look at someone because of his age. also when you look at a driver like Max ....Even if his car better matched his challengers, his youth and lack of maturity would have been a impediment to a championship.

I can see the person that down voted me has the same level of maturity as Max