FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

[izzy]

Marc Priestley asking: "With seven F1 teams picking a joint fight against the FIA and Ferrari, what could the eventual outcome be?"

thanks, wow he's totally with Toto isn't he!

and he's so right imo that FIA just made themselves look guilty with releasing their statement so obviously at that sneaky story-burying time

[e30ernest]

Wolff, Marko and co will make a big mess on the new Ferrari engine because they want to discover and understand what's underneath. They are putting lot of pressure on the FIA ​​to know every detail for then copying it.

If it was illegal, then they won't copy it. I don't think copying this is their intent. For Mercedes, it's mainly to hamper one of its main competitors IMO. For Red Bull and the rest, proving Ferrari ran an illegal car and protesting its 2019 championship could mean millions in prize money. Millions they can throw into development before the cost cuts go into effect.

[izzy]

Fourteen pages of pure speculation about a vague statement issued by FIA. Click bait media pages printing their own version of it and half baked F1 experts throwing in a few videos of their into the mix. People do have a lot of time to spend talking about a matter, the truth of which would probably never come out.

there are different levels of it, it's not just one lot of tribal fans desperately defending their team. It's a huge challenge to the FIA, ALL the non-Ferrari teams ganging up and openly talking about integrity, Marc Priestly making comparisons with FIFA, basically questioning the whole structure of it: getting voted by national associations who get favours from them, so that any president is just there forever, so there was Ballestre and then Mosley and now Todt who omg changed his mind about only doing one term then two now three and counting

and NO CONTRACTS FOR NEXT YEAR yet So don't forget to notice the war

[jumpingfish]

Wolff, Marko and co will make a big mess on the new Ferrari engine because they want to discover and understand what's underneath. They are putting lot of pressure on the FIA ​​to know every detail for then copying it.

If it was illegal, then they won't copy it. I don't think copying this is their intent. For Mercedes, it's mainly to hamper one of its main competitors IMO. For Red Bull and the rest, proving Ferrari ran an illegal car and protesting its 2019 championship could mean millions in prize money. Millions they can throw into development before the cost cuts go into effect.

It's not only prize money, in 2021 regulations in every area will be tough and Ferrari have the engine (if legal) which can give them a huge advantage during next seasons.

[JPBD1990]

Article 2.5 of the technical rugulations allows the FIA to ban legal technical innovations that are deemed to add no value to F1. If it happens the team must publish details about such technology.
It's possible that the agreement between FIA and Ferrari has been done in order to prevent Ferrari from using such technology, but at the same time granting them the confidentiality neeed before filing a patent.

This, at this time (imo) is seeming the most plausible explanation TO ME. I think the reason for non-disclosure is because the technology doesn’t belong to Ferrari - my SUSPICION is that it is indeed their fuel (belonging to Shell) and is possibly patent pending. Shell may have legitimate commercial applications for such technology/additives that aren’t bound by fuel flow limits specific to F1.

Intriguiiiiiiinnnnngggggg

Seems unlikely as oil companies like Shell have batteries of Patent lawyers, Patents and Patent pending on everything under the Sun. Not to mention legions of covert operatives. None of them are naive enough to believe intellectual property is actually secret for long. They wouldn't use it in such an open arena and not have filed a patent...

This announcement is pretty unprecedented. Everyone is speculating on the reason for the non-disclosure.

I think one possible scenario is exactly as you described. Shell does have batteries of patent lawyers, all possibly applying pressure to the FIA to protect their intellectual property. Let’s not forget the FIA is perfectly justified in investigating the situation, but has no right to provide the details of another teams intellectual property. It could also explain why it’s not as black and white as Ferrari being guilty - or not. Ferrari used a product supplied by a third party. It could have been discussed to develop more power, be more fuel efficient. It’s entirely possible that they didn’t develop the product with the sole function of bypassing fuel flow limits (or at least it may have been possible to maintain plausible deniability that this was the sole function). This might also explain the ‘settlement’ instead of a ‘guilty’ or ‘innocent’ finding also.

Anyway like I said - all IMO. Just another wildly speculative crazy idea from a no-nothing fan. Interesting to ponder regardless of what’s true and what’s not.

Have fun!

[snowy]

It used to be the case that all fuels were closely scrutinised and homologated... is this no longer the case?

They would test samples and if even one molecule was out of place they would be in all sorts of trouble.

[snowy]

Wolff, Marko and co will make a big mess on the new Ferrari engine because they want to discover and understand what's underneath. They are putting lot of pressure on the FIA ​​to know every detail for then copying it.

If it was illegal, then they won't copy it. I don't think copying this is their intent. For Mercedes, it's mainly to hamper one of its main competitors IMO. For Red Bull and the rest, proving Ferrari ran an illegal car and protesting its 2019 championship could mean millions in prize money. Millions they can throw into development before the cost cuts go into effect.

They can't challenge the 2019 race or championship results after a certain date and that date has past. Those results are cast in stone.

[DChemTech]

Wolff, Marko and co will make a big mess on the new Ferrari engine because they want to discover and understand what's underneath. They are putting lot of pressure on the FIA ​​to know every detail for then copying it.

If it was illegal, then they won't copy it. I don't think copying this is their intent. For Mercedes, it's mainly to hamper one of its main competitors IMO. For Red Bull and the rest, proving Ferrari ran an illegal car and protesting its 2019 championship could mean millions in prize money. Millions they can throw into development before the cost cuts go into effect.

They can't challenge the 2019 race or championship results after a certain date and that date has past. Those results are cast in stone.

Well, in FIA regulations that is. You can always escalate the situation even further. And as the FIA makes the regulation, they can choose to deviate from it as well in case things really, really get out of hand. But that's all very wild speculation - we're not at such a state of affairs, yet.

[Sieper]

The prize money is not so much what stings me, But all those poles, and a few wins. Who would have won them? That hurts.

[DChemTech]

I would actually intepret it as the teams were mostly frustrated by the ambiguity of the announcement, it never said anything it being legal or not. I don't think the 7 teams think its illegal cuz everything they think Ferrari engine does is absolutely pure speculation. They just want to see if what Ferrari does is legal. If legal = they want to copy. If not 'whew' great they dont need to spend millions on trying to replicate the design. This is what they want to know. Now with this secret agreeement they don't know whats what. THIS IS THE MAIN POINT I think most people fail to recognise.

Their collective address never challeneged FIA investigation techniques in terms of authority and their credibility in determining Ferrari's engine legality, simply the transparency as they want to know the details simple as that....

Read this article
https://f1-insider.com/en/formula1/team ... d-ferrari/

They all know it is something naughty and they r upset coz no action was taken or everything was brushed under the carpet. Rumours that Redbull are even going to sue coz Ferrari let go freely will cost them 20 million €

If other teams just wanted to know about legality of any similar system they developed or plan to develop, they just need to get clarification from fia, like they did with the DAS system... it is that simple

I agree. IMO it's getting hard to defend. It's like having a boxer being suspected of using performance enhancing drugs and the WBA issuing a statement that after they've investigated said boxer, they've reached a "settlement" over the matter and things would stay "between" them.

If the Ferrari engine was legal, the FIA would have said as such. If the FIA couldn't find sufficient proof to prove the Ferrari engine was illegal, they would have said that as well. In either scenario, they do not have to disclose specific technical information. But having worded the announcement that way made it really suspicious.

That's a great comparison. Imagine something like "We have investigated Lance Armstrong's supplement use and agree to a settlement without disclosure of details. In the future, the team of Lance will help us develop new detection guidelines regarding supplements"

[Chene_Mostert]

The prize money is not so much what stings me, But all those poles, and a few wins. Who would have won them? That hurts.

Stepping into a thornbush hurts alot more.
A shocker is on its way.

[Just_a_fan]

A shocker is on its way.

A shocker to whom?

[Espresso]

Wolff, Marko and co will make a big mess on the new Ferrari engine because they want to discover and understand what's underneath. They are putting lot of pressure on the FIA ​​to know every detail for then copying it.

If it was illegal, then they won't copy it. I don't think copying this is their intent. For Mercedes, it's mainly to hamper one of its main competitors IMO. For Red Bull and the rest, proving Ferrari ran an illegal car and protesting its 2019 championship could mean millions in prize money. Millions they can throw into development before the cost cuts go into effect.

Just a step back in history:
Ferrari/Binotti blocked Toto Wolf to get a position at Liberty Media with forcing a new ruling to prevent conflict of interest....
(Whilst washing their hands in innocence with Jean Todt as head of the FIA and his son as manager of LeClerc)

The conflict of interest, in my opininion, is to prevent anything non-Ferrari to have any influence/control within the F1.

Revenge is a dish best served cold

The current protest by all non-Ferrari teams is guided by Mercedes.
Time to clean up the ship as the FIFA did. Exit Jean Todt please.

P.S. another possibility is that Ferrari used so many loopholes, not blocked by regulations, it had FIA freaking out....

[Just_a_fan]

The prize money is not so much what stings me, But all those poles, and a few wins. Who would have won them? That hurts.

7 poles and 3 wins were taken by Ferrari. The 3 wins would have gone to Hamilton (Belgium), Bottas (Italy) and Verstappen (Singapore - Ferrari took 1 and 2 and Max was third).

[kimetic]

Just a step back in history:
Ferrari/Binotti blocked Toto Wolf to get a position at Liberty Media with forcing a new ruling to prevent conflict of interest....
(Whilst washing their hands in innocence with Jean Todt as head of the FIA and his son as manager of LeClerc)

The conflict of interest, in my opininion, is to prevent anything non-Ferrari to have any influence/control within the F1.

I would not be surprised if this is part of it. It's such a hypocrisy for Ferrari to be saying "no ex-TP at Liberty" while having theirs at the very top of the governing body. And now this quite brazen example of bias, compared with how they treated Renault for example - both cars disqualified over a woolly 'driver aid' interpretation.