Valtteri Bottas lead the Austrian Grand Prix from start to finish, but it was behind him that all the action happened. Multiple retirements and collisions caused just 11 cars at the finish, with Leclerc and Norris surprisingly joining Bottas on the podium.
if Hamilton didn't move outside it is racing incident for sure. From first side it is racing incident but must be looked from onboard of ham. Spaces are not relevant.
The thing is, Hamilton was always going to move the outside. That's the nature of a corner. Did he move unreasonably to the outside? No, he had his steering wheel clearly pointing to the right.
You can clearly hear watching the onboard that Ham had some throttle input while he is negotiating the corner. Less throttle input will allow him to take a tighter line and reduce the understeer. To me it is clear that he did not want to relinquish that position. It cost him.
Also Albon got his nose ahead through the apex, on exit he had already half a car on Ham. Ham should have backed off then. Sorry.
That's a fairly reasonable argument to make. Still, Hamilton did technically leave enough space. He was just about with his front wheel against Albon's floor. A very tiny gap inbetween indeed, but that is technically enough. It's my opinion of course, but I don't think it is fair to blame him for not predicting that Albon accelerated his rear wheel into Hamilton's front wheel. As far as I go Hamilton tried obviously to leave space without outright surrendering.
if Hamilton didn't move outside it is racing incident for sure. From first side it is racing incident but must be looked from onboard of ham. Spaces are not relevant.
The thing is, Hamilton was always going to move the outside. That's the nature of a corner. Did he move unreasonably to the outside? No, he had his steering wheel clearly pointing to the right.
You can clearly hear watching the onboard that Ham had some throttle input while he is negotiating the corner. Less throttle input will allow him to take a tighter line and reduce the understeer. To me it is clear that he did not want to relinquish that position. It cost him.
Also Albon got his nose ahead through the apex, on exit he had already half a car on Ham. Ham should have backed off then. Sorry.
I have not seen a video with telemetry of that incident...could you give me a link for it?
i have recorded the race and i could nt find it there or any onboard in f1 site
Having time to think about the race and going through the comments on here I am content on my opinion of would should be.
The stewards decisions in the last 3 years have been ones that have been decided more on emotion than on the actual sporting and technical regulations. FIA need someone that can make a decision on sporting and technical regulations like a Vulcan
Last edited by Spacepace on 05 Jul 2020, 18:12, edited 1 time in total.
The thing is, Hamilton was always going to move the outside. That's the nature of a corner. Did he move unreasonably to the outside? No, he had his steering wheel clearly pointing to the right.
You can clearly hear watching the onboard that Ham had some throttle input while he is negotiating the corner. Less throttle input will allow him to take a tighter line and reduce the understeer. To me it is clear that he did not want to relinquish that position. It cost him.
Also Albon got his nose ahead through the apex, on exit he had already half a car on Ham. Ham should have backed off then. Sorry.
That's a fairly reasonable argument to make. Still, Hamilton did technically leave enough space. He was just about with his front wheel against Albon's floor. A very tiny gap inbetween indeed, but that is technically enough. It's my opinion of course, but I don't think it is fair to blame him for not predicting that Albon accelerated his rear wheel into Hamilton's front wheel. As far as I go Hamilton tried obviously to leave space without outright surrendering.
as if Brazil was not bad enough, now they are saying Albon was optimistic/ inexperienced/ didn't leave Hamilton space and Lewis could have done nothing.
Just watch the same move by Leclerc over Norris few laps later. Hamilton chose to get on the power through the corner knowing full well the car to his left was I front of him. Stank of sore loser mentality as well as entitlement after obviously having the quickest car up until then when Albon on fresh rubbwr would be quicker through the corners.
I'll say it, Hamilton despite being a multi champion does not have half the craft that the likes of Leclrec and the new blood have. He was constantly crashing with team mates on equal car when they were quicker.
Last edited by turbof1 on 05 Jul 2020, 18:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:language.
I too feel that it's mostly a racing incident, though given Albon was ahead when they had contact, let's give most of the blame for it to Hamilton. Still, just last year at this track, we learned that 'let them race' was the new rule. Guess that lasted until the next race here? I find that a bit annoying. (And no, guy on twitter, I am going to really doubt 'harshness' on Hamilton was an after effect from him having success in getting BLM etc. gain ground in the F1 paddock, please!).
But, best to move on, it wasn't a race Hamilton was able to shine, for various reasons. Weird how a simple protest from Red Bull was enough to change the starting grid - why didn't the stewards note the data before!? But really people, slow down for a yellow flag!
Norris though, and Perez* too, used a good car to do well. Both Norris and Albon showed in several moves that they know to take risks when needed (might need some more judgement Albon, even if the other guy is in the wrong). And Leclerc/Ferrari, saving their day as Vettel only found a car to blame, invoking questions of whether he'd be out of Ferrari during the year like Prost, esp. with apparent remarks of 'at least he only spon once' from the teamboss!
When Verstappen's car gave up I thought the race was rather done, but then Hamilton got up to the pace, and could have fought for the win especially after the first SC that brought him on Bottas' heels. Had team/car/circumstances not neutered that with the 2nd and subsequent SC, then that incident with Albon.
Feel a bit sorry for rich kids Stroll (car gave up) and Latifi (so close, but not enough for a point). Raikkonen, well, he certainly didn't shine either did he?! Gio did pretty good though. Sainz was outclassed this weekend by his teammate, while Gasly brought a point to a team that seems to have work to do. Haas though - not sure the car is better, it does seem more consistent, but also, consistently having issues with brakes. Not looking like their year, yet again!
(And no, guy on twitter, I am going to really doubt 'harshness' on Hamilton was an after effect from him having success in getting BLM etc. gain ground in the F1 paddock, please!).
Because the guy on the inside, didn't leave space and bumped him, he got punished for it.
That is what happens when overtaking cars on the outside into a corner. There’s a reason why it’s more difficult and thus why pretty much every driver with half a brain will defend the inside of a corner. If Albon has the balls to attempt a move on the outside and at the risk if being pushed wide, he is also accepting it. This isnt anything new.
You are always going to be vulnerable when going around the outside.
Albon is trying a move around the outside because it's risky but legal, he did under the assumption Hamilton would give him room and the knowledge that "pushing a guy wide" isn't part of the rules.
There's a lot of gray area on "how far alongside" you have to be to be entitled to have room, but we can both agree that Albon was more than far enough "alongside" to get it.
Which is why i say Hamilton deserves the penalty he got, tough break for Albon.
Sainz was outclassed this weekend by his teammate, while Gasly brought a point to a team that seems to have work to do. Haas though - not sure the car is better, it does seem more consistent, but also, consistently having issues with brakes. Not looking like their year, yet again!
Because the guy on the inside, didn't leave space and bumped him, he got punished for it.
That is what happens when overtaking cars on the outside into a corner. There’s a reason why it’s more difficult and thus why pretty much every driver with half a brain will defend the inside of a corner. If Albon has the balls to attempt a move on the outside and at the risk if being pushed wide, he is also accepting it. This isnt anything new.
You are always going to be vulnerable when going around the outside.
Albon is trying a move around the outside because it's risky but legal, he did under the assumption Hamilton would give him room and the knowledge that "pushing a guy wide" isn't part of the rules.
There's a lot of gray area on "how far alongside" you have to be to be entitled to have room, but we can both agree that Albon was more than far enough "alongside" to get it.
Which is why i say Hamilton deserves the penalty he got, tough break for Albon.
Yup, not enough room for Albon and he didnt get it!
There is always something that goes wrong in the first race of the season for Lewis (1 win out of the last 8 seasons with Mercedes). I still think Bottas was lucky Albon didn't get past Lewis because he would've been defenseless with the massive grip difference. Best thing is that we get to do it all again next week...
If you are ahead. Verstappen was ahead, and so was albon.
Albon wasn’t ahead. Lewis was well into the turn before Albon appeared on the outside
At the moment of collision, albon was ahead and keeping it on the track.
ALB wasn't "ahead", they were side by side, having your nose ahead while you are side by side does not absolve you of the responsibility of leaving proper racing room, and the passing car is always given the responsibility of passing safely. ALB should have given more racing room which he had to his left.
So the deal here is that:
- Lewis should apply full "absolute full lock" at variable speed, rather than applying relative full lock, which changes depending on speed (yea, try applying full physical lock at high speed, physics will be very unkind to that).
- Lewis should "put more effort" into working against physics (defending at a steep downhill corner like that). Kinda like extracting "110%" out of a car, eh?
- Since Lewis cannot apply absolute full lock, he should outright surrender the corner and stop racing. Sorry Lewis, you are not allowed to fight a corner within reason.
Like Turbo said, this is not wholly eachother's fault - it should be a racing incident. Brazil was 100% Lewis' fault from what I saw and remember, but not this. Even Albon in his post race interview didn't outright say it was Lewis' fault from what I remember (my feed broke up so I am not sure if he later on said anything).
