Racing Point RP20

[subcritical71]

racing Point used different front brake ducts this year and evolution of the 2019 ones, and they were cleared for doing this, but they seemingly directly carried over the rear brake ducts from 2019, and this is what they got penalized by the Stewards for. I can see why they did it; the rear brake ducts are very complicated parts, and they flow structures are well established and understood, but the engineers were too comfortable not to develop the design and as resulat paid the price.

It is interesting that Sky during P1 almost exclusively showed the front brake ducts when the protest was mentioned. I was getting very bored with the coverage of this. The method of development seems to be what was protested and that is what was ruled on. Not the continued use of a part which physically conforms in all regards to the technical regulations. So the FIA seem to have punished for the design phase and not the actual usage of the part. Seeing as how that part was legally used last year may have weighted on that decision.

[nico5]

racing Point used different front brake ducts this year and evolution of the 2019 ones, and they were cleared for doing this, but they seemingly directly carried over the rear brake ducts from 2019, and this is what they got penalized by the Stewards for. I can see why they did it; the rear brake ducts are very complicated parts, and they flow structures are well established and understood, but the engineers were too comfortable not to develop the design and as resulat paid the price.

Didn’t Red Bull protest the rear brake ducts of the Mercedes and rp in Australia? I thought they modified them though so all of this is a bit strange....

It was rather the suspension than the brake duct itself, although it was used to feed more air into the brake duct

[falonso81]

So, now the team can run them without further punishment? If that is the case, FIA and F1 are going down a dark path...

[subcritical71]

So, now the team can run them without further punishment? If that is the case, FIA and F1 are going down a dark path...

The method of design was declared illegal not the part itself. But I do see that if you think your going to spend more the $400K on designing a part, you may be better off outsourcing it to a competitor! But I also fault the FIA for this. RP didn't actually break any applicable rules at the time their actions took place. And the rules did not consider that the RBD which were run last year (I've seen conflicting reports on this) could be used by the same team this year. There should have been a provision one way or the other specified. I bit like when they decreased the amount of oil burning that could be done. Merc took advantage by using a PU prior to the rule change. They knew the rule was changing but intent of the rule change didn't bite them in that case did it.

[rohan]

Racing Point has been found to be cheats. They should have been thrown out of the whole season - there is clear precedent for this (cf Tyrrell in 1984).

I hope Renault wins their appeal against the unduly lenient punishment given to RP.

[PlatinumZealot]

Latest is that they received CAD drawings for the rear brake ducts after the ruling in June 2019. This means they they conciously knew that they were flouting the rules and continued to use this design... OR they simply messed up.

To make things worse they did not use the rear brake ducts on the 2019 car because the high rake concept of the 2019 car was not compatible with the Mercedes rear BDs. However they slapped on the parts on the 2020 car withought substantially changing the design for 2020. A small oversight in the Engineer's interpretarion of the rules.. But big consequences. They should have been more cautious and re-design the ducts. Oh well.

If i were Racing point I wouldnt take any more chances for the Rest of the season. I would re-design the ducts. Even if heavily based on the Mercedes ones.

[wesley123]

Racing Point has been found to be cheats. They should have been thrown out of the whole season - there is clear precedent for this (cf Tyrrell in 1984).

I hope Renault wins their appeal against the unduly lenient punishment given to RP.

Didn't Tyrrell actively cheat by making their cars much lighter than the minimum? That's hardly comparable.

[subcritical71]

Latest is that they received CAD drawings for the rear brake ducts after the ruling in June 2019. This means they they conciously knew that they were flouting the rules and continued to use this design... OR they simply messed up.

To make things worse they did not use the rear brake ducts on the 2019 car because the high rake concept of the 2019 car was not compatible with the Mercedes rear BDs. However they slapped on the parts on the 2020 car withought substantially changing the design for 2020. A small oversight in the Engineer's interpretarion of the rules.. But big consequences. They should have been more cautious and re-design the ducts. Oh well.

If i were Racing point I wouldnt take any more chances for the Rest of the season. I would re-design the ducts. Even if heavily based on the Mercedes ones.

I just read most of the report. My eyes were rolling back a few times as it was pretty dull reading. But it seems the CAD drawings were supplied in 2018/early 2019. The reason the FBD was declared ok was that they used the part in 2019 so it would reasonably be allowed to carry over. The problem with the RBD was they decided late in 2019 to finally design it into the car, but for 2020. It never ran in 2019.

In case anyone needs a good bedtime story: https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/ ... t-protest/

[Racer X]

Are they running the illegal break ducts? Or have they slapped on the 2019 Racing Point ones? Are they going to alter them? Soon what is the response for this weekend.

[zibby43]

Are they running the illegal break ducts? Or have they slapped on the 2019 Racing Point ones? Are they going to alter them? Soon what is the response for this weekend.

While Racing Point was found to be in breach of the sporting regs, it is allowed to race the illegal rear brake ducts for the rest of the season.

The FIA stewards determined that the €400,000 and the 15-point penalty for the Styrian Grand Prix to be sufficient penalty for the entire season.

[Racer X]

400,000 pound Breaks..... Wow yeah if they cost me that much I would certainly use them all the time maybe even make them into slippers after the season was over get my money's worth.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Big Tea]

Are they running the illegal break ducts? Or have they slapped on the 2019 Racing Point ones? Are they going to alter them? Soon what is the response for this weekend.

The ducts are not (were found not to be anyway) illegal, it is the was they were designed that was not legal, so once they are actually finished and fitted they are fully legal. It is strange but all above board.

[SmallSoldier]

Are they running the illegal break ducts? Or have they slapped on the 2019 Racing Point ones? Are they going to alter them? Soon what is the response for this weekend.

The ducts are not (were found not to be anyway) illegal, it is the was they were designed that was not legal, so once they are actually finished and fitted they are fully legal. It is strange but all above board.

Not above board... It is illegal not to design your own brake ducts for 2020... It doesn’t matter when or how they source them, they didn’t design them.


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[Mamba]

The method of design was declared illegal not the part itself. But I do see that if you think your going to spend more the $400K on designing a part, you may be better off outsourcing it to a competitor! But I also fault the FIA for this. RP didn't actually break any applicable rules at the time their actions took place. And the rules did not consider that the RBD which were run last year (I've seen conflicting reports on this) could be used by the same team this year. There should have been a provision one way or the other specified. I bit like when they decreased the amount of oil burning that could be done. Merc took advantage by using a PU prior to the rule change. They knew the rule was changing but intent of the rule change didn't bite them in that case did it.

This ruling potentially opens up a whole can of beans if not sorted. B-teams might reckon they could score 15 points in a good race so why not take the risk and dock up 400K is you could recover that and more end of the year in prize money due to a better position in the championship.

What other sporting regulations can be broken and give performance? Wind tunnel or CFD runs come to mind... Dock up a few hundred thousand in cash and points but you can put a better developed package (that 100% complies to the technical regulations but was developed in breach of the sporting regulations) on the grid that will recover the lost revenue and points in a race or two possibly.

The FIA need to come down hard and fast on the matter.

[Big Tea]

Are they running the illegal break ducts? Or have they slapped on the 2019 Racing Point ones? Are they going to alter them? Soon what is the response for this weekend.

The ducts are not (were found not to be anyway) illegal, it is the was they were designed that was not legal, so once they are actually finished and fitted they are fully legal. It is strange but all above board.

Not above board... It is illegal not to design your own brake ducts for 2020... It doesn’t matter when or how they source them, they didn’t design them.


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That is why they were fined, but the ducts are considered OK.