2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

[ENGINE TUNER]

It's not a matter of over-driving. Or tire degradation. It was a matter of blistering today.

Blistering occurs when a tire overheats. The excess heat causes the tread to soften, and then it starts to break away.

What factors can cause overheating? Several, but 2 of the most important are: 1) over-inflation and 2) high track temperatures. The third factor is how much the car is asking from the tires, and the Merc demands a lot due to the downforce it generates, but it is a very well-sorted car on the suspension front, which is why, the vast majority of the time since '19, Merc has had class-leading tire wear.

I also don't think there is anything Mercedes could've done in qualifying to make themselves slower in qualifying, and subsequently faster in the race. Those setup choices and the trade off between race and quali pace are more relevant when it comes to degradation, not an anomaly like blistering.

Kind of like how Mercedes goes with a low rake concept to be well-rounded and fast at the majority of circuits on the calendar, they design the car/suspension to consistently energize/work with the harder compounds that are used on race day, in a temperature range that best represents most of the calendar.

For whatever reason, the Red Bull struggles to get the best out of their car in the circumstances that apply to the vast majority of races, but on those one-off days when the tires are pumped up to levels approaching the PSI of a 19" road car tire and the track temperatures are 40+ C, the car just suddenly works.

Of course it was about blistering, but the fact is that the Mercs were blistering after only a few laps. Whereas the RB was not blistering. So, either the geometry was at fault, putting unusual strain on the tyres, or else the drivers....both of them....were pushing the cars too hard. And as regards tyre pressures? All cars had to run with the same pressures.
Note that apart from the inner edges of the fronts blistering, the rears were blistering in the centre

The inner edges were not blistering, that was pickup on the inner front right. It looked bad, but it was inconsequential.

Merc blistered their tires because they were battling side by side for the first few laps and pushed hard after their first pit stop. They pushed too hard in the early laps of each stint. Also they were close behind other cars, leading to a loss of downforce and more sliding, raising the surface temps of the tire.

[basti313]

Wow, some people just can't accept that Mercedes lost fair and square. Can't blame the weather either.

#manyifs

The thing to concider is that this simply means that Mercedes is not at all that dominant for the 2020 season as 'we' all imagined.

Unfortunately for Max, that's not how things went down, and he's 30 points short instead.
........

Well, still the fact stands, that the Merc is 1 sec faster in Q. Compromising 0.5sec to race pace and you have a car winning with a 60sec gap in this race. Here we had a crazy setup on the Merc.
It does not make sense to talk away dominance when we saw last week, that the Merc can easily pull a second per lap on the RedBull, which is again at least half a second faster then the rest.

[GPR-A]

Wow, some people just can't accept that Mercedes lost fair and square. Can't blame the weather either.

#manyifs

The thing to concider is that this simply means that Mercedes is not at all that dominant for the 2020 season as 'we' all imagined.

Unfortunately for Max, that's not how things went down, and he's 30 points short instead.
........

Well, still the fact stands, that the Merc is 1 sec faster in Q. Compromising 0.5sec to race pace and you have a car winning with a 60sec gap in this race. Here we had a crazy setup on the Merc.
It does not make sense to talk away dominance when we saw last week, that the Merc can easily pull a second per lap on the RedBull, which is again at least half a second faster then the rest.

It's not like people who support Mercedes or Lewis doesn't enjoy a good competition, regardless of who wins. Who wouldn't? But this crazy outburst of impractical over optimism about an underdog becoming a championship contender with a car that was deemed a failure until last weekend and throwing reality out of the window about 6 times double world champions having probably the fastest car of F1 history, being driven by an all time great, is what is annoying.

I hope to see more such races, but I am also aware of how well Mercedes responds to these kind of issues and how fascinating their come back would generally be. It's one of those occasional hiccups in a season that Mercedes goes through, which hasn't allowed them (or for that matter any team in the history) to have a complete sweep despite having the fastest car in history, up until that point.

[Just_a_fan]

Yesterday a lot of people were very bullish about Hulk b/o his P3. I missed part of the race, how did he end up behind Stroll?

Hulk pitted for a late tyre change because he had a lot of tyre vibration.

Or the conspiracy hypothesis version: "D@Ddy FoRcEd huLK tO Pit to HelP Son!"

[Just_a_fan]

Thinking back over the last week, the irony is that Max was helped to win yesterday by the Mercedes's tyre failures last week. If there hadn't been failures, the tyre pressures probably wouldn't have been changed and Mercedes would have likely had an easier time of it during the race. Not saying Max wouldn't have won anyway with the tyres raced and the temps experienced - he probably would have, but it might have been a harder battle than it was yesterday. One of those funny little things that life throws up now and then.

[Restomaniac]

Yesterday a lot of people were very bullish about Hulk b/o his P3. I missed part of the race, how did he end up behind Stroll?

They gave Hulkenberg an extra pit stop just because.......

[Manoah2u]

#manyifs

The thing to concider is that this simply means that Mercedes is not at all that dominant for the 2020 season as 'we' all imagined.

Unfortunately for Max, that's not how things went down, and he's 30 points short instead.
........

Well, still the fact stands, that the Merc is 1 sec faster in Q. Compromising 0.5sec to race pace and you have a car winning with a 60sec gap in this race. Here we had a crazy setup on the Merc.
It does not make sense to talk away dominance when we saw last week, that the Merc can easily pull a second per lap on the RedBull, which is again at least half a second faster then the rest.

It's not like people who support Mercedes or Lewis doesn't enjoy a good competition, regardless of who wins. Who wouldn't? But this crazy outburst of impractical over optimism about an underdog becoming a championship contender with a car that was deemed a failure until last weekend and throwing reality out of the window about 6 times double world champions having probably the fastest car of F1 history, being driven by an all time great, is what is annoying.

I hope to see more such races, but I am also aware of how well Mercedes responds to these kind of issues and how fascinating their come back would generally be. It's one of those occasional hiccups in a season that Mercedes goes through, which hasn't allowed them (or for that matter any team in the history) to have a complete sweep despite having the fastest car in history, up until that point.

none of you seem to realize that Max is 2ND in the WDC standings.

ABOVE bottas.

Max has finished P2 in the two former races, and P3 in the second GP, and had a DNF in the first.

Yes, the RB lacks still compared to the Merc. But still, RB is right there, they've beaten Merc on their own power
during the race, and we're not even halfway the season.

Again, over optimism? Max is 2nd in the WDC standings.
Merc has shown hot GP's show their achillesheel.
Will they work on improving? Well dah, that same goes for RBR and everyone.

The fact stands, Merc had NO answer to Max, and it's sad to realize that if RBR had a proper 2nd driver,
like Daniel, they would have had a easy 1-2 finish today.

And again, it's not over optimism to realize that - afterwards - it was a mistake from RBR to immediately pit Max.
He could have won the GP. No, nobody would have realized that outcome in the end, it still remains, Max did not HAVE to pit, their tires were in great condition, they took it as a precaution.
The simple fact - AGAIN - remains that had they not pitted him, which is why Marko criticised the team,
Max would have 100% guaranteed WON the last GP too, and that, AGAIN, would have given Lewis 7 points less,
and Max 7 points more. That would be 84 points for max, 100 points for Lewis.

Concidering Max had a retirement in the first GP, and Lewis HAS YET NOT, but concidering what happened last GP,
anything could happen.

I'll repeat, next GP is Spain, it could be just as hot as this weekend, which is not favourable for Merc it seems,
AND it's clear Mercedes ALSO is very sensitive to the tire issue with Pirelli, which does NOT go for RedBull, whom has greatly improved over the season.

It's not over optimism, it's clear truths.

Again, Max won this GP fair and square, the Mercs were no match for the RB, and the body language and facial expressions of the Merc drivers were evident after the race. They can complain all they want about 'extremely pumped tires' to prevent delamination like last race, the simple fact remains: RedBull does NOT have ANY of those problems, and it could expose an inherent flaw of the Mercedes design.
This could mean Mercedes has to 'tone down' their potential so that they won't have delamination issues again, which will expose them to the RBR. Or they need to pump the tires up more than normal, and they have the extreme wear as in this race. The only solution there is to make an extra pit stop.

Either way, it greatly influences their race,
And no matter how much faster they're in the Qually, they can be P1 and P2 the ENTIRE season with 5 seconds faster if you want. Max CAN still qualify reasonably at P3, and it's RACE day that counts.
And if the Mercedes has become weaker during the race, and the RBR stronger in the Race, the net result will be that we have honest competition.

All that qually might over the rest went NOWHERE during the race.

Lewis finished 11 seconds !! behind Max.


Imagine if this was the FIRST GP of the season.
Y'all Merc and Hamilton fanbois would have panicked, and everybody would bet Max to be WDC.

Or does the rule 'you're as good as your last race' only apply when it fits personal preference?

[Phil]

none of you seem to realize that Max is 2ND in the WDC standings.

ABOVE bottas.

How so is this that impressive? It's the way the point system works. A win gets you 6-8 points over 2nd, 2nd only gets you 2-4 points over 3rd. Bottas had a no point finish, just as Max did. At the same time, Hamilton snatched 3 wins in races that could have otherwise been won by Bottas.

After 5 races, 6-8 points difference amount to a 30-40 points gap.

That's why Hamilton is 30 points ahead of Verstappen.

I'm all for more competition and I'm also not taking anything for granted - meaning that the 1 sec advantage in QF can easily evaporate within the right circumstances like heat and tire pressures as this race has shown, but being the realist, Mercedes is quite far ahead in overall pace to make this a close WDC race for Max.

[GPR-A]

Well, still the fact stands, that the Merc is 1 sec faster in Q. Compromising 0.5sec to race pace and you have a car winning with a 60sec gap in this race. Here we had a crazy setup on the Merc.
It does not make sense to talk away dominance when we saw last week, that the Merc can easily pull a second per lap on the RedBull, which is again at least half a second faster then the rest.

It's not like people who support Mercedes or Lewis doesn't enjoy a good competition, regardless of who wins. Who wouldn't? But this crazy outburst of impractical over optimism about an underdog becoming a championship contender with a car that was deemed a failure until last weekend and throwing reality out of the window about 6 times double world champions having probably the fastest car of F1 history, being driven by an all time great, is what is annoying.

I hope to see more such races, but I am also aware of how well Mercedes responds to these kind of issues and how fascinating their come back would generally be. It's one of those occasional hiccups in a season that Mercedes goes through, which hasn't allowed them (or for that matter any team in the history) to have a complete sweep despite having the fastest car in history, up until that point.

none of you seem to realize that Max is 2ND in the WDC standings.

ABOVE bottas.

Max has finished P2 in the two former races, and P3 in the second GP, and had a DNF in the first.

Yes, the RB lacks still compared to the Merc. But still, RB is right there, they've beaten Merc on their own power
during the race, and we're not even halfway the season.

Again, over optimism? Max is 2nd in the WDC standings.
Merc has shown hot GP's show their achillesheel.
Will they work on improving? Well dah, that same goes for RBR and everyone.

The fact stands, Merc had NO answer to Max, and it's sad to realize that if RBR had a proper 2nd driver,
like Daniel, they would have had a easy 1-2 finish today.

And again, it's not over optimism to realize that - afterwards - it was a mistake from RBR to immediately pit Max.
He could have won the GP. No, nobody would have realized that outcome in the end, it still remains, Max did not HAVE to pit, their tires were in great condition, they took it as a precaution.
The simple fact - AGAIN - remains that had they not pitted him, which is why Marko criticised the team,
Max would have 100% guaranteed WON the last GP too, and that, AGAIN, would have given Lewis 7 points less,
and Max 7 points more. That would be 84 points for max, 100 points for Lewis.

Concidering Max had a retirement in the first GP, and Lewis HAS YET NOT, but concidering what happened last GP,
anything could happen.

I'll repeat, next GP is Spain, it could be just as hot as this weekend, which is not favourable for Merc it seems,
AND it's clear Mercedes ALSO is very sensitive to the tire issue with Pirelli, which does NOT go for RedBull, whom has greatly improved over the season.

It's not over optimism, it's clear truths.

Again, Max won this GP fair and square, the Mercs were no match for the RB, and the body language and facial expressions of the Merc drivers were evident after the race. They can complain all they want about 'extremely pumped tires' to prevent delamination like last race, the simple fact remains: RedBull does NOT have ANY of those problems, and it could expose an inherent flaw of the Mercedes design.
This could mean Mercedes has to 'tone down' their potential so that they won't have delamination issues again, which will expose them to the RBR. Or they need to pump the tires up more than normal, and they have the extreme wear as in this race. The only solution there is to make an extra pit stop.

Either way, it greatly influences their race,
And no matter how much faster they're in the Qually, they can be P1 and P2 the ENTIRE season with 5 seconds faster if you want. Max CAN still qualify reasonably at P3, and it's RACE day that counts.
And if the Mercedes has become weaker during the race, and the RBR stronger in the Race, the net result will be that we have honest competition.

All that qually might over the rest went NOWHERE during the race.

Lewis finished 11 seconds !! behind Max.


Imagine if this was the FIRST GP of the season.
Y'all Merc and Hamilton fanbois would have panicked, and everybody would bet Max to be WDC.

Or does the rule 'you're as good as your last race' only apply when it fits personal preference?

Well, let's look how this all stands at the end of the season. It is not that, this is the first time other contenders are billed to challenge Mercedes in the last 6 years (7th year running). It isn't even that, other drivers haven't ended up above Bottas in earlier seasons. Is this the first year that Mercedes has faced some unusual problems related to tyres? No. Have they not ran away with championships despite that? Yes. What is so different about this season?

Besides, Lewis has started many season behind the other championship contenders, which isn't new either and this is the first year where he is having 30 points lead in a championship fight after 5 races!

Do you forget that Honda has already installed second PU on the Red Bull cars? They have already had a terminal failure in one GP. He was an also ran against Lewis in Austria, Hungary and British GP. One GP, just one GP with some unusual variables and you are forgetting all the problems that RB16 has been going through. Get real. To your last statement about "everybody would bet Max to be WDC", I would always consider him to be an "eternal future world champion". Who would have thought Alonso wouldn't win another championship after 2006 and who would have thought 2013 Spanish GP would be his last win!

[f1316]

I don’t know if this has been said but it seems to me there’s a clear correlation between those running lower downforce levels - eg the rear wing on the Red Bull is fairly skinny and the one on the Ferrari is minuscule - and their tyre performance.

Whereas usually you’d want more downforce to stop the car sliding, in this case the high pressures and heat seemed to make it worse to put that kind of load through the tyre.

Which is also to say that I’m not sure that we’ll see the same thing in another hit race unless we see a similar variance in downforce.

[Bsowles]

Verstappen P1 read it and weep haters.

It seems the moderators are going to allow garbage like this to stand so I'll remember this for the future!

It was a nice friendly thread up till then, wasn't it?

Agreed!

[Xwang]

I do not know if this video is true, but if it is, why Ham has not been penalised for being at 114 km/h instead of 80 at pit limiter begin line?

[El Scorchio]

I do not know if this video is true, but if it is, why Ham has not been penalised for being at 114 km/h instead of 80 at pit limiter begin line?

They'd have nabbed him for it if he was speeding, like they do with everyone else. It's hardly like it wasn't broadcast for the whole world to see, and he was on the radio asking his team about it, so race control would have been aware.
edit- and you can bet your bottom dollar other teams would be asking- especially Red Bull, in order to try and maximise the point swing from Hamilton to Verstappen.

But, even if not I believe the penalty is only 5 seconds and he was more than that ahead of Bottas at the end of the race so he'd still have finished second regardless.

[Fer.Fan]

I do not know if this video is true, but if it is, why Ham has not been penalised for being at 114 km/h instead of 80 at pit limiter begin line?

FIA is keen on keping Merc happy. Any other team and driver have been penalised.

[jjn9128]

I do not know if this video is true, but if it is, why Ham has not been penalised for being at 114 km/h instead of 80 at pit limiter begin line?

Because there are 2 pit lines and they have to reach an average speed between them. He overspeeded the first then underspend to reach average pit lane speed.