FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[Just_a_fan]

To help manage the pressure, teams are allowed a breather from the crankcase into the airbox,

Not anymore they're not. The vent in to the airbox was banned as part of the oil-burning clampdown.

All of them blow the crankcase vent out the back of the car now.

[Big Tea]

Anyone else think it's just a matter of oil consumption being proportional between quali and race. If you use the quali mode in the race you exceed consumption limits. This rule simply makes it so that you cannot have an advantage in quali that you wouldn't have over the span of a race. Or am I unique in thinking so.

Drivers don't need modes to protect an engine, they just shouldn't mash the pedal all the time, they need to modulate their pedal inputs with their feet, like microsteering.

To the same boys down voting every comment I make with regard to oil consumption, watch this video. Oil, additive, water, whatever you want to call it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... _mercedes/

It's coming out of the breather. How do you explain that ?

Does that make plumes of white/bluish smoke/vapor ok?

Right I got it, I know how merc are cheating. Their oil has lots of solvents which burn off when the engine warms and after the race they top up, as allowed, with very very heavy oil. Just think how much weight they can save

[MtthsMlw]

Tidbit from AMuS about the matter:

Both measures [Quali mode ban and futher aero restrictions] come out of the blue. The restriction to one engine setting for qualifying and racing is justified by the fact that it is becoming increasingly difficult to check whether the drive units are being operated in accordance with the rules. The Ferrari case was a warning to the FIA. The FIA only found out about the tricks when a competitor provided information about the alleged fraud. Also now there are apparently again doubts about at least one of the four drive units.

The FIA has asked the engine manufacturers to provide detailed information on the ERS architecture, as well as drawings and three-dimensional CAD views of all auxiliary circuits that are not part of the high-voltage circuit, by 21 August. In case of doubt, physical checks would be carried out on the car. The sudden distrust allows only two conclusions. Either there is suspicion, or the FIA is actually groping in the dark.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ali-modus/

[nzjrs]

Tidbit from AMuS about the matter:

Both measures [Quali mode ban and futher aero restrictions] come out of the blue. The restriction to one engine setting for qualifying and racing is justified by the fact that it is becoming increasingly difficult to check whether the drive units are being operated in accordance with the rules. The Ferrari case was a warning to the FIA. The FIA only found out about the tricks when a competitor provided information about the alleged fraud. Also now there are apparently again doubts about at least one of the four drive units.

The FIA has asked the engine manufacturers to provide detailed information on the ERS architecture, as well as drawings and three-dimensional CAD views of all auxiliary circuits that are not part of the high-voltage circuit, by 21 August. In case of doubt, physical checks would be carried out on the car. The sudden distrust allows only two conclusions. Either there is suspicion, or the FIA is actually groping in the dark.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ali-modus/

Interesting. I noted that during FP2? Karun said his sources indicated that the information released to the public was less than 30% of the directive and there were many important technical details omitted. Perhaps that is some of what he was talking about.

[Xwang]

Now on Sky (at least the Italian one), Horner has said that they asked two years ago to FIA for the banning of the party mode.

[RZS10]

Well if you can't compete ask the rule maker to cripple the competition ... not surprising, is it?

[V12-POWER]

Well if you can't compete ask the rule maker to cripple the competition ... not surprising, is it?

ive said since the beginning of this season that Mercedes had something up their sleeve - chassis or engine

It is obviously their engine that’s illegal. When Ferrari vented you had the whole forum making all sort of theories readily to accuse of cheating

Every Mercedes engine is venting now in 2020 you somehow believe they’re all fair players and go on to explain how and why they’re doing it within the rules because they’re a team of untouchable gods, what the f is this double morality in this forum?

it must be so hard to accept the fact that they’re on the very same league as that red car in terms of playing within the rules or not

[ispano6]

I think you lack understanding about what all the engine modes are actually doing. A lot more is being changed that what the driver can do with a pedal!

You think wrong. You don't seem to understand my comment so I'll leave it at that. Valteri sounds like a dummy if he says he doesn't have the power, skill, knowledge, or means to protect the tires or engine.

Dans79 is absolutely right. I read your comment the same way. You pretty explicitly state that the driver can just let his foot off the throttle a bit and manage the engine that way.

That’s not how this works in F1.

Letting off the throttle in an F1 car has a significant (monumental) engine braking effect. It’s not like modulating the pedal in a road car on the highway where you go “Hmm, take a bit off here to go 65 mph instead of 70.”

So what? They can learn to micro pedal. Have you ever driven a Tesla with one pedal?

Trust me, I know how F1 works, been following since 1986. I have first hand information from Honda personnel who specifically dealt with Honda Soichiro and how he insisted on never to cheat and in order to succeed that you must first taste failure. When Honda was dominant with their turbos what happened then? They got banned.

[JordanMugen]

Why do you keep saying they NEED to equalise the engines? What is the need?

So constructors can compete on a level playing field obviously, and engine development costs can be reduced greatly for manufacturers. V8 Supercars has operated on a fixed cumulative horsepower limit (hp integrated over rpm) with all engine parts needing to be homologated (and being open for the inspection of rival engine builders) for quite some time. It has greatly reduced costs (and the frequency of blow-ups!) compared to the days when engine builders were free to develop the small block Ford and small block Chevrolet engines for maximum horsepower.

Why don’t they just take away all engine modes and let the drivers control the car with the accelerator like they do on other series like SuperCars and NASCAR!

Indeed V8 Supercars still use cable-operated throttles (by regulation).

Because F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of technology, not historic racing.

If it is not "historic" racing, then why does F1 require hydraulic power steering by regulation, instead of the electric power steering as fitted to 99% of modern vehicles!?

Some times there can be other regulatory reasons for mandating outdated technology.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Does that make plumes of white/bluish smoke/vapor ok?

Oil mixed with blowby.
If it doesn't come out of the exhaust then I think we can all agree it is not a direct result of combustion.

If anything, the fact that they throw oil out of the breather means that the actual quantity of oil burnt in the cylinder is smaller that whatever the new oil consumption limit is.

I've explained this before, if a little oil gets in the air side of the centrifuge it ends out being blown out of the breather. This could be caused by oil overfill as they have indicated but there can be other reasons too, for example at low engine speed, the centrifuge does not spin fast enough to separate the oil froth coming out of the scavenge pumps into air/blowby mixture and clean non-aerated oil.

On engines with such open breathers where the blowby is not returned back to the inlet, there would be some form of catch can/ filter arrangement to stop oil loss. Merc might not have such a system at all or it might not work very well. I think the former is more plausible.

I like a good theory on circumventing rules but I think the oil burning saga is over. You can do the maths yourself but the potential gain of burning such a small amount of oil with such a poor heating value at a low thermal effciency is very close to nothing.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Because F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of technology, not historic racing.

If it is not "historic" racing, then why does F1 require hydraulic power steering by regulation, instead of the electric power steering as fitted to 99% of modern vehicles!?

Some times there can be other regulatory reasons for mandating outdated technology.

I'm not sure you are familiar with an F1 car's hydraulic system but it is far from being outdated technology. Actually it is far more similiar to aircraft hydraulics than anything you'd find in a road car and the reason they use that instead of electric motors is because it is much lighter for the power required.
If you were to replace all the tiny hydraulic actuators and hydraulic pump which runs way over 200bar with individual electric motors for throttle, trumpets, wastegates, DRS, gearbox, clutch, brakes and power steering, etc you'd end up with a big old tank.
To convice yourself just look up a typical Mahle or Continental throttle actuator and compare it to a hydraulic equivalent. BrianG has a sub-forum here somewhere on hydraulics. I can't even imagine the size of the motor required to steer those fat front wheels at the loads they experience nowadays..

I take your point anyway, things like the open wheels/ open cockipt don't really have a point from the technical perspective

[saviour stivala]

Several of the control systems of the formula one car require a hydraulics power supply to meet the performance specification in terms of force levels and frequency response. Having installed a hydraulic system, it makes sense to use it for control systems that might not demand hydraulics; the hydraulic system is lighter than an electrical system.

[zibby43]

An Italian journalist has indicated that Mercedes did not use their qualifying mode in Q3 today.

Edit: Welp, there seems to be some good evidence that Mercedes did use a lower qualifying mode today in Q3.



"Mercedes has always used strat 2 for the last part of the qualification, which is the most powerful. Today they used strat 3 for the last part of the qualification (with Bottas it's easier if you want to see). I throw it there, then free space for interpretation #SpanishGP"



Merc normally, for every quali sessions, runs Strat 2 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Today, Merc used Strat 3 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Oh boy.

[siskue2005]

Taking a 1-2 in qualifying by 7+ tenths when you don't even use your Q3 mode, while the rest of the field does.

So if others also dont use their party mode then the gap will be similar to what we saw in first few races (that is 1 sec)

this is going to be fun

[Big Tea]

An Italian journalist has indicated that Mercedes did not use their qualifying mode in Q3 today.

Edit: Welp, there seems to be some good evidence that Mercedes did use a lower qualifying mode today in Q3.

https://twitter.com/Gianludale27/status ... 01442?s=20

"Mercedes has always used strat 2 for the last part of the qualification, which is the most powerful. Today they used strat 3 for the last part of the qualification (with Bottas it's easier if you want to see). I throw it there, then free space for interpretation #SpanishGP"

https://twitter.com/AnnotatedWA/status/ ... 75041?s=20

Merc normally, for every quali sessions, runs Strat 2 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Today, Merc used Strat 3 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Oh boy.

There is no rule that Merc have to call the 'mode' the same thing all the time, its just switch positions like 'set to 11' like spinal tap