2020 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, August 14 - 16

[Sieper]

Rosberg was too good, not as good as Hamilton, but too good to be a defacto number 2. But Rosberg stopped and they chose Bottas.

[Bsowles]

It was the other way around,it was Seb who was short wit them. He had previously asked about eeking out his tyres or using them up, and was then asked by the team if he thought he could go to the end on that set, after taking extra out of them fro several laps.

It was probably a change of plan as Charles was out and they wanted Seb to get points and it grated on him as he could have saved several laps if they agreed with him when he asked.

I must have missed that part about Seb previously asking about tire strategy. I never heard that part on the radio, so maybe I was refueling (grabbing a beer) at the time you’re referencing. Thanks for the reply.

Here is the full exchange. I believe he was told to push for three laps before this with no tyre saving.

https://i.redd.it/9m43thhtdeh51.jpg

Wow, that changes the whole context of what I thought to be the case. Thank you for posting that. I’ll grab one of those beers for you.

[DChemTech]

Rosberg was too good, not as good as Hamilton, but too good to be a defacto number 2. But Rosberg stopped and they chose Bottas.

Agree, I would rank Bottas along the likes of Barichello and Coulthard, whereas Rosberg could share a class with say, Hakkinen, Raikkonen and Button. (not in having the same driving style, but similar overall performance)

[sosic2121]

No, it's not. Bottas was ahead so got first call on pit stop strategy anyway as per what the team usually do, and it's already been mentioned that he HAD to pit at that point for a couple of reasons, one of which being LeClerc. Also Hamilton managed to produce a much better and longer middle stint on his tyres (which he is always much better at than Bottas) where Bottas on fresh rubber didn't make big inroads to his lead, to allow him to delay his stop and get on the better tyre for less time at the end. Hamilton just drove himself into contention for second place by extending his tyre life, even though a shot at the win was a step too far given the race conditions.

O come on. Even Bottas isn't that naive. They boxed him early, checked his tyres, and told Hamilton he can go on. What was the purpose of that, other than to build offset to Bottas?

How about Monza 2019 when they did exactly the same thing to Hamilton which allowed Bottas to beat him to 2nd place? I guess Mercedes were also trying to make sure Bottas finished ahead of Hamilton? If not for his pathetically weak nature in combat, the strategy played well into his hands and he should have won that grand prix. Again, if Hamilton was pitted first allowing him undercut Bottas in Silverstone, you all would have called for Toto's head. The onus was on Bottas to make enough inroads into Hamilton's lead before Hamilton's 2nd stop to have a buffer. Going back to Monza 2019, if not for a red road block driven by Leclerc, Hamilton would have driven off into the sunset and Bottas' tyre offset would have counted for nothing. Bottas didn't have any such excuse in Silverstone as Max was way ahead of him and Hamilton even had to negotiate Leclerc before getting to him.
Please stop looking for a conspiracy where there is none. Mercedes prioritises the team ahead of their drivers.

What are you talking about? Wasn't Bottas trying to push Max after they pitted on the same lap?

[rgimblett]

I agree with all above who found it boring. There were some interesting overtakes around the outside in early stages, then nothing of much consequence happened. The train of cars from Gasly downwards looked all set some final lap heroics but what happened.... nothing, they finished in the same order they ran in the last few laps. That's Barcelona for you, generally uneventful.

Mercedes is just too good and it's a blight on the enjoyment of the sport that none of the other teams can close the gap year to year. Out of interest did anyone see the Mercedes drivers use the push-pull steering? I was closely watching some Bottas onboard and he didn't seem to use it to my eye. Or has it been banned and I missed that?

We all have our favourite drivers and I'm wishing Daniel would do better. What a crap race Renault had!!. Seriously, their one stop strategy was cactus when they were already 10-15 seconds behind the best mid-fielder within 10 laps. Only Vettel's time was near target for a successful 1 stop. At that point they should have aborted tyre preservation and pivoted to a two stop as they were clearly going to be outside top ten.

[Mchamilton]

I agree with all above who found it boring. There were some interesting overtakes around the outside in early stages, then nothing of much consequence happened. The train of cars from Gasly downwards looked all set some final lap heroics but what happened.... nothing, they finished in the same order they ran in the last few laps. That's Barcelona for you, generally uneventful.

Mercedes is just too good and it's a blight on the enjoyment of the sport that none of the other teams can close the gap year to year. Out of interest did anyone see the Mercedes drivers use the push-pull steering? I was closely watching some Bottas onboard and he didn't seem to use it to my eye. Or has it been banned and I missed that?

We all have our favourite drivers and I'm wishing Daniel would do better. What a crap race Renault had!!. Seriously, their one stop strategy was cactus when they were already 10-15 seconds behind the best mid-fielder within 10 laps. Only Vettel's time was near target for a successful 1 stop. At that point they should have aborted tyre preservation and pivoted to a two stop as they were clearly going to be outside top ten.

the only time you would see merc use DAS is on the warm up lap, or behind a safety car. given how slow they were doing the qualy prep laps then i doubt it necessary at all with a track temp of 45-50 degrees C

[rgimblett]

the only time you would see merc use DAS is on the warm up lap, or behind a safety car. given how slow they were doing the qualy prep laps then i doubt it necessary at all with a track temp of 45-50 degrees C

Interesting. I thought DAS allowed optimum toe in/out to be different for straights and corners so it would be used all the time, not just as a tyre warming instrument.

[Sieper]

yeah, that was the idea floating around when we were still guessing at its usage/importance. I have never heared they used it in race like that. Never been eagle eyed watching their in car footage either but I am sure someone did. For the moment it seems only to be used as a tire heating optimizer in pre race lap maybe and behind the safety car for the restart. Which is important. See Brazil last year.

[rgimblett]

yeah, that was the idea floating around when we were still guessing at its usage/importance. I have never heared they used it in race like that. Never been eagle eyed watching their in car footage either but I am sure someone did. For the moment it seems only to be used as a tire heating optimizer in pre race lap maybe and behind the safety car for the restart. Which is important. See Brazil last year.

I thought Mercedes dominance in 2020 was in part down to DAS improving both cornering and straight line. God helps us if they actually start using it with that effect.

[tangodjango]

Rosberg was too good, not as good as Hamilton, but too good to be a defacto number 2. But Rosberg stopped and they chose Bottas.

Agree, I would rank Bottas along the likes of Barichello and Coulthard, whereas Rosberg could share a class with say, Hakkinen, Raikkonen and Button. (not in having the same driving style, but similar overall performance)

I think I would rate Hakkinen higher than the other ones. In 98-99 he was pretty much on Schumi's level and his biggest competitor along with Alonso I suppose.

[NathanOlder]

Rosberg was too good, not as good as Hamilton, but too good to be a defacto number 2. But Rosberg stopped and they chose Bottas.

Agree, I would rank Bottas along the likes of Barichello and Coulthard, whereas Rosberg could share a class with say, Hakkinen, Raikkonen and Button. (not in having the same driving style, but similar overall performance)

I think I would rate Hakkinen higher than the other ones. In 98-99 he was pretty much on Schumi's level and his biggest competitor along with Alonso I suppose.

Agreed. 1998, Mika was the best driver on the grid.

[AnthonyG]

Hamilton did an amazing job with tyre management, keeping them alive and pushing the maximum.
Just too bad it was a boring race and didn't even matter, he could have just as easily made a 3 stop and still have a dominant victory.

yessss. But consider max was down on power, because of old angine repacement. Honda is trying everything and doing very well, but still behind mercedes, still on first engine. Is a PU driven formula, you like it or not

I agree with you that PU is a large part of the performance, but there is a lot more than that to it.
It's not as if the Mercedes cars just power past anything else like we saw in the beginning days of the current formula and places like Hungary where engine performance is less important, they were also miles ahead of the field.

[DChemTech]

Rosberg was too good, not as good as Hamilton, but too good to be a defacto number 2. But Rosberg stopped and they chose Bottas.

Agree, I would rank Bottas along the likes of Barichello and Coulthard, whereas Rosberg could share a class with say, Hakkinen, Raikkonen and Button. (not in having the same driving style, but similar overall performance)

I think I would rate Hakkinen higher than the other ones. In 98-99 he was pretty much on Schumi's level and his biggest competitor along with Alonso I suppose.

In those years, yes, but he did show a bit lesser performance in the years prior and after, which is why I would still put him in the same group (although of course there is some variance within the group as well - you just have to draw borders somewhere :p)

[basti313]

Hamilton did an amazing job with tyre management, keeping them alive and pushing the maximum.
Just too bad it was a boring race and didn't even matter, he could have just as easily made a 3 stop and still have a dominant victory.

yessss. But consider max was down on power, because of old angine repacement. Honda is trying everything and doing very well, but still behind mercedes, still on first engine. Is a PU driven formula, you like it or not

I agree with you that PU is a large part of the performance, but there is a lot more than that to it.
It's not as if the Mercedes cars just power past anything else like we saw in the beginning days of the current formula and places like Hungary where engine performance is less important, they were also miles ahead of the field.

In the hybrid aera engine power is relevant in Hungary. Without engine power you loose so much on the straight that you can not cover it in the corners anymore.

[Moore77]

yessss. But consider max was down on power, because of old angine repacement. Honda is trying everything and doing very well, but still behind mercedes, still on first engine. Is a PU driven formula, you like it or not

I agree with you that PU is a large part of the performance, but there is a lot more than that to it.
It's not as if the Mercedes cars just power past anything else like we saw in the beginning days of the current formula and places like Hungary where engine performance is less important, they were also miles ahead of the field.

In the hybrid aera engine power is relevant in Hungary. Without engine power you loose so much on the straight that you can not cover it in the corners anymore.

To Pany's point, even Mercedes cars were on their 1st PU of the season. In fact their PU has done a race more than the old PU that Max was using.