FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[Big Tea]

There is nothing stopping a team taking a new engine every race is there?
Other than cost and a grid penalty. Take for instance, AT.
They are among the mid field but capable of getting up there with a little extra power.
A new engine in high output high damage condition, good race and points, then use for practice the following week as the last of the life is used, then a new engine and 10 place grid drop. But an engine with enough extra to easily get back into the top 10, then probably enough extra to get near the top 5.

Only cost really, offset by points.

No, according to AMUS as posted above, all Engine make teams should run the same mode.
Which is really stupid in my opinion

But it does not stipulate engine build. some can be made more fragile and more powerful. also, we dont know how they are specifying 'mode' do we? if an engine is built to a standard, it probably has to be tweaked as it wil not be identical to another. It it's 'natural' position is (say) timing sooner or later, is 'mode' the amount it can be adjusted from there, of from a mathematical point?

[siskue2005]

There is nothing stopping a team taking a new engine every race is there?
Other than cost and a grid penalty. Take for instance, AT.
They are among the mid field but capable of getting up there with a little extra power.
A new engine in high output high damage condition, good race and points, then use for practice the following week as the last of the life is used, then a new engine and 10 place grid drop. But an engine with enough extra to easily get back into the top 10, then probably enough extra to get near the top 5.

Only cost really, offset by points.

No, according to AMUS as posted above, all Engine make teams should run the same mode. (i dont know if it is true or not)
But IMO it is really stupid
essentially killing the race IMHO

Why?

Everyone in same mode, with current aero rules, there is no way of close racing
It negates the possibility of lower teams having a good race with higher mod for just that race.
etc. etc.

Now tell me why it would be good idea for racing?

[siskue2005]

There is nothing stopping a team taking a new engine every race is there?
Other than cost and a grid penalty. Take for instance, AT.
They are among the mid field but capable of getting up there with a little extra power.
A new engine in high output high damage condition, good race and points, then use for practice the following week as the last of the life is used, then a new engine and 10 place grid drop. But an engine with enough extra to easily get back into the top 10, then probably enough extra to get near the top 5.

Only cost really, offset by points.

No, according to AMUS as posted above, all Engine make teams should run the same mode.
Which is really stupid in my opinion

But it does not stipulate engine build. some can be made more fragile and more powerful. also, we dont know how they are specifying 'mode' do we? if an engine is built to a standard, it probably has to be tweaked as it wil not be identical to another. It it's 'natural' position is (say) timing sooner or later, is 'mode' the amount it can be adjusted from there, of from a mathematical point?

Yeah i agree

but this is what the article says
I dont know if it just a miss translation, cannot find any english article

"On from the third engine per season, all engines of one manufacturer need to be run in the same mode"

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/

[basti313]

No, according to AMUS as posted above, all Engine make teams should run the same mode. (i dont know if it is true or not)
But IMO it is really stupid
essentially killing the race IMHO

Why?

Everyone in same mode, with current aero rules, there is no way of close racing
It negates the possibility of lower teams having a good race with higher mod for just that race.
etc. etc.

Now tell me why it would be good idea for racing?

These are pure dreams.
In reality we never saw a midfield team ruining the engine for one race. This is unrealistic as the current assumption on party modes is rather temperature than lifetime management. You can not wear it down in one race, because this would spoil temperature management.
Also with overtaking, we barely see the situation where someone hunts down another one and drives the other one in depleting his mode allowance. With Merc running in front anyways unrealistic...but in the end it comes simply down to tire situation and with a tire advantage that allows the "hunt" it is also possible to overtake without modes.

[siskue2005]

These are pure dreams.

Please prove it is pure dreams, rather than saying such stuffs

In reality we never saw a midfield team ruining the engine for one race.

Until now there was no scope to do that, but now with the same mod rule it is 100% possible (unless they want to close that possibility of an existing race)

Also with overtaking, we barely see the situation where someone hunts down another one and drives the other one in depleting his mode allowance. With Merc running in front anyways unrealistic...but in the end it comes simply down to tire situation and with a tire advantage that allows the "hunt" it is also possible to overtake without modes.

So overtaking has nothing to do with engine, just tyres?

[basti313]

These are pure dreams.

Please prove it is pure dreams, rather than saying such stuffs

In reality we never saw a midfield team ruining the engine for one race.

Until now there was no scope to do that, but now with the same mod rule it is 100% possible (unless they want to close that possibility of an existing race)

Also with overtaking, we barely see the situation where someone hunts down another one and drives the other one in depleting his mode allowance. With Merc running in front anyways unrealistic...but in the end it comes simply down to tire situation and with a tire advantage that allows the "hunt" it is also possible to overtake without modes.

So overtaking has nothing to do with engine, just tyres?

You prove nothing and request prove???

Yes, overtaking has nothing to do with engine maps if they are fairly similar among the teams. It comes down to tires, nothing else.

[Wouter]

Yeah i agree

but this is what the article says
I dont know if it just a miss translation, cannot find any english article

"On from the third engine per season, all engines of one manufacturer need to be run in the same mode"

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/

Why do you keep nagging about that? The journalists at AMuS are always present at the races and are kept very well informed by the FIA ​​by means of an official letter, only intended for certain journalists.
They also speak excellent English, of course. Is the information only reliable if it is on an English site?
AMuS is the most reliable site in Germany.

[siskue2005]

Yeah i agree

but this is what the article says
I dont know if it just a miss translation, cannot find any english article

"On from the third engine per season, all engines of one manufacturer need to be run in the same mode"

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/

Why do you keep nagging about that? The journalists at AMuS are always present at the races and are kept very well informed by the FIA ​​by means of an official letter, only intended for certain journalists.
They also speak excellent English, of course. Is the information only reliable if it is on an English site?
AMuS is the most reliable site in Germany.

So is it crime to ask what the translation means? It was actually google translated (which i dont beleive is good)
And i dont speak German, and only know English, so forgive me for asking for a reliable translation

[siskue2005]

Yes, overtaking has nothing to do with engine maps if they are fairly similar among the teams. It comes down to tires, nothing else.

Do you exact power output to show that it is similar among the teams?

[MtthsMlw]

The translation is correct.

[e30ernest]

Yes, overtaking has nothing to do with engine maps if they are fairly similar among the teams. It comes down to tires, nothing else.

Norris had his brilliant last lap scraps because he was allowed to run a higher engine mode. Sure he nursed his tires better, but towards the end he was able to attack even more because he also had a more power available to him.

[Big Tea]

Yes, overtaking has nothing to do with engine maps if they are fairly similar among the teams. It comes down to tires, nothing else.

Norris had his brilliant last lap scraps because he was allowed to run a higher engine mode. Sure he nursed his tires better, but towards the end he was able to attack even more because he also had a more power available to him.

Thats another point. With the standardised (all but) engine modes, there is going to be less scope to alter tyre use patterns. another differential gone

[Wouter]

Yeah i agree

but this is what the article says
I dont know if it just a miss translation, cannot find any english article

"On from the third engine per season, all engines of one manufacturer need to be run in the same mode"

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... direktive/

Why do you keep nagging about that? The journalists at AMuS are always present at the races and are kept very well informed by the FIA ​​by means of an official letter, only intended for certain journalists.
They also speak excellent English, of course. Is the information only reliable if it is on an English site?
AMuS is the most reliable site in Germany.

So is it crime to ask what the translation means? It was actually google translated (which i dont beleive is good)
And i dont speak German, and only know English, so forgive me for asking for a reliable translation

I speak German and English and had already indicated several times that the translation was correct, and AMuS provides reliable information.
Anyway, keep looking for an English site, then you can be 100% sure that the translation is good.

[basti313]

Yes, overtaking has nothing to do with engine maps if they are fairly similar among the teams. It comes down to tires, nothing else.

Norris had his brilliant last lap scraps because he was allowed to run a higher engine mode. Sure he nursed his tires better, but towards the end he was able to attack even more because he also had a more power available to him.

Except for Merc all others were also in high power modes and Merc was practically in "limp home" at the Lando glory run. I do not see the effect of engine mode here, rather of completely done tires and broken wings.
Furthermore the big gain was depleting the battery with the overtake button which was used in every possible occasion. This will be still possible.

[search]

There is nothing stopping a team taking a new engine every race is there?
Other than cost and a grid penalty. Take for instance, AT.
They are among the mid field but capable of getting up there with a little extra power.
A new engine in high output high damage condition, good race and points, then use for practice the following week as the last of the life is used, then a new engine and 10 place grid drop. But an engine with enough extra to easily get back into the top 10, then probably enough extra to get near the top 5.

Only cost really, offset by points.

No, according to AMUS as posted above, all Engine make teams should run the same mode. (i dont know if it is true or not)
But IMO it is really stupid
essentially killing the race IMHO

Why?

not sure if it kills the racing, but running all in the same mode on from engine 3 just makes no sense, in my opinion.

Russell for example introduced his 2nd engine in Styia, so he'll get his 3rd one relatively soon, while Mercedes will get the 3rd one much later in the season. Once they introduce it, they either need to use a mode too low for Mercedes then (to save Russell's engine) or a too high one, risking Russell's to blow.