Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

[Just_a_fan]

WRONG!

Max Emilian Vs Lewis Carl.

Now apologise

(Under current forum rules made up by me only first two first names count)

First name: Max = 3 letters. Lewis = 5 letters. 5 > 3. Therefore Hamilton wins.

This is much more fun than the slagging off that happens at times.

Max = 12 points in Scrabble
Lewis = 8.

Only problem for Max being Lewis will have one Scrabble point per World Title when he's done.

Ah yes, the X-factor in Scrabble brings a healthy 8 points to the party.

[Jolle]

Lol. What exactly did Hamilton achieve in 2009? Can you be objective?

Two race wins in a car that was more then 2 seconds off the pace in winter testing. So bad that they stuck on the 2008 wing because the 2009 was so unstable that it crashed a couple of times.
He, with the team dragged that car from a Williams today to a race winner by half season.

So winter testing is the bench mark! So if that is the case, Ferrari should have been winning almost every single season in the hybrid era. Yeah, if Hamilton doesn't perform then it's car's problem. But when Schumacher or Vettel doesn't do well, it was about inability to adapt to changing tires and cars. Good. I expected this pretty much.

I''m merely making an observation that both Vettel and Schumacher struggled when the formula changed. There are lots of statement that. Schumacher just couldn't get his tires to work in the 2010-2012 years, where Rosberg could.

But on a larger scale, Ive been reading your replies here a bit, somehow you have a big problem with Hamilton? some also could say of Schumacher that in his Benneton days he needed either cheating, foul play or even Briatore buying another team to get the engine he wanted, both years without real heavyweight on the grid (he was the only WC competing a whole season both years) and at Ferrari, PMI just brought in the best of the best of the whole grid and still it took him five years to have succes. Hamilton and Mercedes are up against Newey, PMI, 5 years of WC on the grid (7 next year) and no bespoke tires.

The last champion that won a title in a non-dominant car was Alain Prost in 1986, because Piquet and Mansell fought each other to death on track. Senna had his McLarens that could win a GP in reverse, Prost/Lauda the most dominant car ever, the MP4/2, and all those in Williams had electronics and Newey to do a WC with one hand on the wheel. Prost, Lauda, Piquet, Senna and Hamilton won championships in cars that needed completely different driving styles, Prost even three (Turbo, NA and NA with all the electronics you can imagine). Compared to them, Schumacher and Vettel only had one style of car they were absolute king of.

[Just_a_fan]

Did Hamilton not struggle in 2013 with Pirellis, while Vettel was brilliant? Same tires. Hamilton also struggled in 2009 when all that aero was gone and again, Vettel was brilliant then too.

Lol, if there is an better example of a team and driver turning a dog of a car that makes the F1000 look like a solid winner, into something that won races, it’s Hamilton and McLaren in 2009.

Lol. What exactly did Hamilton achieve in 2009? Can you be objective?

4 poles and 2 wins. Not bad really.

[dans79]

Please don't confuse myself with yourself, stick to the threads topic please.

You should check out your own postings in this thread, because you have quite a few that are off topic as well.

It's quite clear Hamilton is now going to break Schumacher's records, what more is there to say?

If you have nothing more to say, then why do you continue to post in the thread?

[dans79]

Yeah thats true, the older you are I guess the slower you become at reacting and fine tuning these changes. Be interesting to see how a 37yr old Hamilton adapts to the 2022 rule changes compared to the likes of Max, Charles , Lando and George.

I don't think it's necessarily the age. It's a so-so analogy, but once you put a horse out to pasture for a while, they are never the same!

[Wass85]

Please don't confuse myself with yourself, stick to the threads topic please.

You should check out your own postings in this thread, because you have quite a few that are off topic as well.

It's quite clear Hamilton is now going to break Schumacher's records, what more is there to say?

If you have nothing more to say, then why do you continue to post in the thread?

Thanks for your concern but it's nothing to do with you.

Stick to the threads theme.

[Caesar.]

Lol, if there is an better example of a team and driver turning a dog of a car that makes the F1000 look like a solid winner, into something that won races, it’s Hamilton and McLaren in 2009.

Lol. What exactly did Hamilton achieve in 2009? Can you be objective?

Two race wins in a car that was more then 2 seconds off the pace in winter testing. So bad that they stuck on the 2008 wing because the 2009 was so unstable that it crashed a couple of times.
He, with the team dragged that car from a Williams today to a race winner by half season.

While I do agree Hamilton did have a solid year, but it wasn't as good as most people make it seem. He had a strong start, but a really poor stretch from after Bahrain until Germany, where he either crashed out (monaco), made no noise or drive outstandingly well (turkey, britain), while also clumsily getting a puncture (germany).

2009 was a year where no one driver stood out iirc

[ENGINE TUNER]

Lol, if there is an better example of a team and driver turning a dog of a car that makes the F1000 look like a solid winner, into something that won races, it’s Hamilton and McLaren in 2009.

Lol. What exactly did Hamilton achieve in 2009? Can you be objective?

4 poles and 2 wins. Not bad really.

Also, Podium in Australia that was taken away because of McLaren misconduct and he would have won in Germany if Webber didn't bounce off Rubens and cut down his tire.

Vettel was not great in 2009, crashed alot and alot of mistakes, lost the opportunity to challenge for the championship even though he had the best car on the grid in te 2nd half of the season.

[Jolle]

Lol. What exactly did Hamilton achieve in 2009? Can you be objective?

Two race wins in a car that was more then 2 seconds off the pace in winter testing. So bad that they stuck on the 2008 wing because the 2009 was so unstable that it crashed a couple of times.
He, with the team dragged that car from a Williams today to a race winner by half season.

While I do agree Hamilton did have a solid year, yet it wasn't as good as most people make it seem. He had a really poor stretch from after Bahrain until Germany when he got that update.

The car, even with the upgrades was super difficult to race and unpredictable. His crash at Monza was a good example.

[Caesar.]

Two race wins in a car that was more then 2 seconds off the pace in winter testing. So bad that they stuck on the 2008 wing because the 2009 was so unstable that it crashed a couple of times.
He, with the team dragged that car from a Williams today to a race winner by half season.

While I do agree Hamilton did have a solid year, yet it wasn't as good as most people make it seem. He had a really poor stretch from after Bahrain until Germany when he got that update.

The car, even with the upgrades was super difficult to race and unpredictable. His crash at Monza was a good example.

I find that hard to believe. Crashing on the last lap is an unforced error imo.

[Jolle]

While I do agree Hamilton did have a solid year, yet it wasn't as good as most people make it seem. He had a really poor stretch from after Bahrain until Germany when he got that update.

The car, even with the upgrades was super difficult to race and unpredictable. His crash at Monza was a good example.

I find that hard to believe. Crashing on the last lap is an unforced error imo.

I watched that race live, he was pushing that car to the limit, especially toward the end of the race. It as the only way to get any kind of results out of it.

[dans79]

Lol, if there is an better example of a team and driver turning a dog of a car that makes the F1000 look like a solid winner, into something that won races, it’s Hamilton and McLaren in 2009.

Lol. What exactly did Hamilton achieve in 2009? Can you be objective?

4 poles and 2 wins. Not bad really.

Yep, that's more than some drivers achieved in a year when they won a WDC!

[Moore77]

But on a larger scale, Ive been reading your replies here a bit, somehow you have a big problem with Hamilton?

I don't have a problem with Hamilton. I don't even know him and there is no reason to like or dislike him, as is with any other driver. I simply enjoy watching excellence of every driver and team. If you want to take a conventional approach of reading my posts and forming that opinion, feel free to do so.

I find it amusing when a group of people indulge in over glorification of a driver. Even more, when there is game of playing down one driver to look the other one better. I am just trying to play it from the other side. At the end of the day, I don't get anything being a lover or a hater of a driver.

some also could say of Schumacher that in his Benneton days he needed either cheating, foul play or even Briatore buying another team to get the engine he wanted, both years without real heavyweight on the grid (he was the only WC competing a whole season both years) and at Ferrari, PMI just brought in the best of the best of the whole grid and still it took him five years to have succes. Hamilton and Mercedes are up against Newey, PMI, 5 years of WC on the grid (7 next year) and no bespoke tires.

I haven't followed the early 90s all that well and it's difficult to rely on what has been written through the articles and as it is the case, they are all viewpoints of an author, who certainly isn't non partisan. If I would have watched all of those races myself, I could have done a better job of arguing on. I can only talk about late 90s and onwards. Some articles say that, Schumacher mastered the left foot breaking better than Senna and he thought, there was something wrong with Schumacher's car and it had TC on. I am not clear on those things. So I would go with you on that one.

The last champion that won a title in a non-dominant car was Alain Prost in 1986, because Piquet and Mansell fought each other to death on track. Senna had his McLarens that could win a GP in reverse, Prost/Lauda the most dominant car ever, the MP4/2, and all those in Williams had electronics and Newey to do a WC with one hand on the wheel. Prost, Lauda, Piquet, Senna and Hamilton won championships in cars that needed completely different driving styles, Prost even three (Turbo, NA and NA with all the electronics you can imagine). Compared to them, Schumacher and Vettel only had one style of car they were absolute king of.

In fact, you can add Kimi to that list of drivers who won against a better machine in 2007. Alonso and Hamilton were fighting hard with that McLaren, which was definitely the better machine and Kimi could sneak a title.

[Moore77]

Lol. What exactly did Hamilton achieve in 2009? Can you be objective?

4 poles and 2 wins. Not bad really.

Yep, that's more than some drivers achieved in a year when they won a WDC!

The point is, he struggled in 2009 compared to Vettel. That was the argument, not how many poles or how many wins he had. Jolle was talking about how Hamilton adapts well whereas Vettel and Schumacher struggled when things changed and I pointed to him that, Hamilton struggled to do well in both 2009 and 2013. With a vastly improved car in the second half of 2009, the results came as expected. He could barely make an impact in the first half.

Heck, even Kimi did well with a win. Trulli got a pole in Toyota, Fernando got a pole in Renault and Fisichella got one in Force India! They were much bigger achievements compared to a supremely well funded McLaren.

[Jolle]

4 poles and 2 wins. Not bad really.

Yep, that's more than some drivers achieved in a year when they won a WDC!

The point is, he struggled in 2009 compared to Vettel. That was the argument, not how many poles or how many wins he had. Jolle was talking about how Hamilton adapts well whereas Vettel and Schumacher struggled when things changed and I pointed to him that, Hamilton struggled to do well in both 2009 and 2013. With a vastly improved car in the second half of 2009, the results came as expected. He could barely make an impact in the first half.

Heck, even Kimi did well with a win. Trulli got a pole in Toyota, Fernando got a pole in Renault and Fisichella got one in Force India! They were much bigger achievements compared to a supremely well funded McLaren.

you missed the point. I didn't say Schumacher (and Vettel) struggled with a car, but with a new rule set.