Honda has dropped a bomb in Formula One by revealing they are set to leave the sport at the end of 2021. The company's exit will mark the end of 7 years of racing, with mixed success, during the hybrid F1 era.
That's a very interesting point. Renault could be in a position of power here, because the last thing F1 needs is for them to just walk off as well. They need to be kept happy.JordanMugen wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:59What's the penalty for non-compliance should Renault not wish to supply the units?
If the Alpine cars ran Ferrari power units (and hence Red Bull and AlphaTauri likewise), it would save Renault a bunch of money!El Scorchio wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 16:01That's a very interesting point. Renault could be in a position of power here, because the last thing F1 needs is for them to just walk off as well. They need to be kept happy.
, albeit the Ferrari units could be badged as something else (with Ferrari's agreement).
I agree with this. It swings the balance of power away from Mercedes towards Renault.El Scorchio wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 16:01That's a very interesting point. Renault could be in a position of power here, because the last thing F1 needs is for them to just walk off as well. They need to be kept happy.JordanMugen wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:59What's the penalty for non-compliance should Renault not wish to supply the units?
I think this is a contributing factor. Not to mention the 'Covid induced' 2020 PU freeze blocked Honda from introducing the culmination of their 2 year PU development plan as the planned mid-season update this season (although as discussed on the Honda PU thread, they probably should have done at the start of the season and taken the chance).rogazilla wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:57I think this is probably a bigger reason for Honda to leave. Ferrari and Merc uses F1 as marketing but Honda traditionally uses F1 to train their engineers. In a frozen state, there is no more innovation and probably less attractive to Honda even though it would probably cost less. On the other hand, you can say once frozen, if you are not on top, then it is not attractive from a PR perspective either, no reason to keep playing.
All Renault power units will be excluded from the World Championship in such a case, as the regulation is very straight-forward and is a fundamental condition in order to enter any power units into the Formula One World Championship.El Scorchio wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:36They are very lucky if Renault is compelled to supply them, given the way RBR threw them under the bus last time after their winning partnership came to an end. If I was Renault I'd try and seek any avenue to avoid having to do so.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... 6-19_0.pdfb) No power unit may be used in a given Championship season unless the Power Unit Manufacturer
supplying such power unit accepts and adheres to the following conditions.
Each of the Power Unit Manufacturers of an homologated power unit must:
i) provide the FIA, before 15 May (or such other date as agreed in writing between all the
Power Unit Manufacturers and the FIA) of the season preceding that in which such power
units are to be supplied, with the list of teams (clearly identifying the appointed
“works/factory” team, if any) to which a supply agreement has been concluded for the
given Championship season ;
ii) if called upon to do so by the FIA before 1 June (or such other date as agreed in writing
between all the Power Unit Manufacturers and the FIA) of the season preceding that in
which such power units were to be supplied, supply at least a number of teams (“T”) equal
to the following equation:
T = (111-A)/(B-C)
Yes, Mugen accquired the IP to old Honda engine designs last time. Albeit only the V10, I don't believe Mugen ever accquired the IP to the V12.Big Tea wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 14:44This was my initial thought. It is a very complicated thing to go about but what about the possibility of someone like Mechachrome to continue engine build with ties to the factory but not costs directly attributed to Honda?
Did they not do that the first time they left F1?
I think that would be a sure fire way to say goodbye to Mercedes.tangodjango wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 14:41Only way is to force Mercedes to open source last year´s engine design completely. From algorithms to nuts and bolts specifications. It will never happen but that is the only way. The F1 engine program has almost zero relevance to ANY automotive program going forward as we transition from PHEV to EV completely in the next 10-15 years and post that EV combined with Hydrogen fuel cell in some use cases.El Scorchio wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 14:03And there's simply no incentive for any new engine supplier to enter the sport. They will have to go through the same very public growing pains and criticism Honda had to and not be competitive for quite some time, and even then probably realise the absolute ceiling is second best in class.NathanOlder wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 13:22
Yeah, the complexity of these power units is really taking its toll now. A return to some naturally aspirated V10's is in order I believe [-o<
F1 needs to decide what it is, going forward. Certainly the engines need simplification to attract new manufacturers and make it worth their while, or they need a special dispensation to get up to speed. But where is the ROI?
Great, down to 16 cars it is. Another 10 years of unchallenged mercedes victories. Great success for entire F1 circus.El Scorchio wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:36They are very lucky if Renault is compelled to supply them, given the way RBR threw them under the bus last time after their winning partnership came to an end. If I was Renault I'd try and seek any avenue to avoid having to do so.
Well, ask this. If you were Renault would you ever want to work with Red Bull again after the completely hostile and unprofessional way they publicly behaved toward them before they parted ways?Juzh wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 17:24Great, down to 16 cars it is. Another 10 years of unchallenged mercedes victories. Great success for entire F1 circus.El Scorchio wrote: ↑02 Oct 2020, 15:36They are very lucky if Renault is compelled to supply them, given the way RBR threw them under the bus last time after their winning partnership came to an end. If I was Renault I'd try and seek any avenue to avoid having to do so.
We salute this genius man.
