Red Bull RB16

[ryaan2904]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -win-1.jpg

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -sus-1.jpg

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... side-1.jpg

That last image bargeboards clearly copy and paste from the one and only Mercedes. One or two post before this someone asked why other teams dont copy the mercs. Well, you got it

What's copied? They have to have some of the same features because they both have capes, but the actual shape of the bargeboards are very different. Mercedes has a dual element channel at the edge of the bargeboard, whereas RBR has those two wavy winglets. The venetian blinds are different as well, as are the boomerang elements.

I think copy came off as a very strong word for the situation sorry, but what I meant was that their ideology seems to be converging/will converge next year to Mercedes imo. My post was in reference to that other post where the guy was wondering why other teams dont copy the mercs

[godlameroso]

That last image bargeboards clearly copy and paste from the one and only Mercedes. One or two post before this someone asked why other teams dont copy the mercs. Well, you got it

What's copied? They have to have some of the same features because they both have capes, but the actual shape of the bargeboards are very different. Mercedes has a dual element channel at the edge of the bargeboard, whereas RBR has those two wavy winglets. The venetian blinds are different as well, as are the boomerang elements.

I think copy came off as a very strong word for the situation sorry, but what I meant was that their ideology seems to be converging/will converge next year to Mercedes imo. My post was in reference to that other post where the guy was wondering why other teams dont copy the mercs

You're not wrong, teams are converging, only the Ferrari powered teams and Alpha Tauri are the only teams on the grid who don't use a cape. It's a resource consideration, would it be worth for those teams to switch philosophy when it took RB and Renault a large portion of this year to unlock its potential, or do you keep developing what you are already familiar with? The Ferrari chassis is pretty good, albeit a bit draggy and the engine is also neutered, would the cape and Mercedes feature that come with that be better? Perhaps, is it worth doing when you'll have to switch to a brand new aero concept in 2022?

[ryaan2904]

What's copied? They have to have some of the same features because they both have capes, but the actual shape of the bargeboards are very different. Mercedes has a dual element channel at the edge of the bargeboard, whereas RBR has those two wavy winglets. The venetian blinds are different as well, as are the boomerang elements.

I think copy came off as a very strong word for the situation sorry, but what I meant was that their ideology seems to be converging/will converge next year to Mercedes imo. My post was in reference to that other post where the guy was wondering why other teams dont copy the mercs

You're not wrong, teams are converging, only the Ferrari powered teams and Alpha Tauri are the only teams on the grid who don't use a cape. It's a resource consideration, would it be worth for those teams to switch philosophy when it took RB and Renault a large portion of this year to unlock its potential, or do you keep developing what you are already familiar with? The Ferrari chassis is pretty good, albeit a bit draggy and the engine is also neutered, would the cape and Mercedes feature that come with that be better? Perhaps, is it worth doing when you'll have to switch to a brand new aero concept in 2022?

About the cape thing, I've noticed that the J vanes in the Ferrari sort of converge at the bottom in such a way that the bottom part actually becomes sort of a cape. Have you noticed? Does that mean it has the benefits of both the J vanes and the cape?

[ryaan2904]

Ill post a pic in the Ferrari thread

[Bandit1216]

I meant more the big picture, rake and car lenght. Where the two fastest cars are on the oposite side of the spectrum. Not the details

[pierrre]

Would high rake be a disadvantage on the 2021 smaller floors because of the sealing of the floor?

The high rake concept will be a disadvantage next year due to the smaller floor but, on top of that, because of the abolition of the slots in front of the rear tires.
They are fundamental to avoid dirty air going under the car damaging the aerodynamics of the diffuser, so next year diffusers will be way less efficient.

Why is the fia constantly making rules to make Mercedes faster anyways

trade off, higher rake too will be effected by the new rules because the floor is steeper so pressure build up towards the rear, on top of the floor is greater and that will move air around the new floors cut out towards underneath. low rake longer floor which has more surface area for ground effect, with the new floor rule, will allow negative pressure underneath the car to recover that negative pressure reducing ground effect unless the bargeboards and the rest of the aero package can keep the recovery at a minimum.

there is a huge aerodynamic advantage the longer chassis allows compared to a short chassis. vortex can run longer along the body to be more effective while certain criteria, say, if the aerodynamicist wants to drag as much air downwards as possible towards the diffuser and rear wing, the longer bodied car has more area to do this

one reason maybe that red bull racing are running a short chassis high rake is that, as the rear suspension compresses, the rate of air approach angle ratio change is greater than those running long chassis and maybe this is also why the mercedes-amg dont really bother running high rake because the angle will only change marginally while the suspension geometry is compromised further when running high rake angles

[Coefficient]

Has the interesting f1 stuff moved to a new thread or is f1 just not interesting anymore?

[zibby43]

Verstappen's tire issue gave us a peek at something we don't normally see on the Red Bull - "a knurled/ribbed finish on the inside surface of the wheel rim in order to help with temperature control."

via @SomersF1

[godlameroso]

The high rake concept will be a disadvantage next year due to the smaller floor but, on top of that, because of the abolition of the slots in front of the rear tires.
They are fundamental to avoid dirty air going under the car damaging the aerodynamics of the diffuser, so next year diffusers will be way less efficient.

Why is the fia constantly making rules to make Mercedes faster anyways

trade off, higher rake too will be effected by the new rules because the floor is steeper so pressure build up towards the rear, on top of the floor is greater and that will move air around the new floors cut out towards underneath. low rake longer floor which has more surface area for ground effect, with the new floor rule, will allow negative pressure underneath the car to recover that negative pressure reducing ground effect unless the bargeboards and the rest of the aero package can keep the recovery at a minimum.

there is a huge aerodynamic advantage the longer chassis allows compared to a short chassis. vortex can run longer along the body to be more effective while certain criteria, say, if the aerodynamicist wants to drag as much air downwards as possible towards the diffuser and rear wing, the longer bodied car has more area to do this

one reason maybe that red bull racing are running a short chassis high rake is that, as the rear suspension compresses, the rate of air approach angle ratio change is greater than those running long chassis and maybe this is also why the mercedes-amg dont really bother running high rake because the angle will only change marginally while the suspension geometry is compromised further when running high rake angles

The diffuser angle is steeper next year? That's a huge change, that alone is going to play havoc on diffuser aero. There are other benefits to running high rake angles, particularly because if you can tune the aero, it gives you more rear ride compliance. Helpful for running over kerbs, if you design your chassis around it, it shouldn't affect COG too badly either.

Is the shape Ferrari used while testing their 2021 floor going to be legal next year?

I don't know where RBR is going to use their tokens.

[Morteza]

Via Motorsport.com

[lio007]

RedBull's front brake ducts are so big compared to e.g. Mercedes. Any guesses why they need them that big?

[wesley123]

Aero benefits

[Just_a_fan]

Pushing as much air as they can outboard through the wheel/hub system.

[ryaan2904]

Aero benefits

But doesn't it give them high drag?

[wesley123]

Aero benefits

But doesn't it give them high drag?

It might be, but the benefits most likely far outweigh this