[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

[ferkan]

It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

Go rewatch the 2017 season!

Its funny people think 2017 season was that close. It was closer, but considering Ferrari's reliability and Vettel's performance, it wasn't actually that close.

Think about it, 2010 and 2012 were infinitely closer yet no one would argue Ferrari's of these seasons were anywhere close to RB (or McL in 2012)

[ferkan]

I'd love to see the Mercedes car sales statistics to see if they have had more non-white buyers this year. I suspect not.

7 consecutive F1 titles, causation does not equal correlation but for the sake of giving Hamilton the benefit of his success; Here are the numbers...

Mercedes-Benz branded car deliveries increased by 1.3% in 2019 to a new record 2,339,562 cars. 2019 was the ninth consecutive record sales year for Mercedes-Benz.

Mercedes-Benz branded car sales were as following in major markets in 2019:
Sales 2019 % Change
Europe..................937,881 +0.4
– thereof Germany....318,353 +4.8
Asia/Pacific............977,922 +3.7
– thereof China........693,443 +6.2
NAFTA...................372,144 -1.6
– thereof USA..........316,094 +0.0

Is Lewis driving for BMW as well?

Munich. The BMW Group reported its ninth consecutive record year in 2019, with a total of 2,520,307 (+1.2%) BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce vehicles delivered to customers worldwide

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/a ... anguage=en

[dans79]

It's funny Mercedes always mention how they let their drivers fight contrary to other teams. I want to see them do it knowing they're gonna need to desperately fight for the title from the get go.

Go rewatch the 2017 season!

Its funny people think 2017 season was that close. It was closer, but considering Ferrari's reliability and Vettel's performance, it wasn't actually that close.

Think about it, 2010 and 2012 were infinitely closer yet no one would argue Ferrari's of these seasons were anywhere close to RB (or McL in 2012)

It was very close till about 2/3 of the way through the season. Not to mention LM10, said nothing about the championships needing to go down to the last race.

[PlatinumZealot]

I’m a Lewis supporter, but I don’t like greed.
He has more money then he can ever spend, why get greedy, he needs to look around at the world situation.

Not greed in any sense. It is about knowing his worth. He is worth billions in marketing if we look at the long term value to the brand. It's a negotiation. For example if he is theoretically valued at billions, and he is getting only 1% of that, he does have a good argument to raise his price. If he leaves even to rival manufacturer like Ferrari, or Aston Martin, some of that value with move with him. Some value he cannot take from Mercedes because he won his champs in cars there and those cars will always be tied to him. So he cannot take it all.. But he definitely can threaten them.

[TAG]

I'd love to see the Mercedes car sales statistics to see if they have had more non-white buyers this year. I suspect not.

7 consecutive F1 titles, causation does not equal correlation but for the sake of giving Hamilton the benefit of his success; Here are the numbers...

Mercedes-Benz branded car deliveries increased by 1.3% in 2019 to a new record 2,339,562 cars. 2019 was the ninth consecutive record sales year for Mercedes-Benz.

Mercedes-Benz branded car sales were as following in major markets in 2019:
Sales 2019 % Change
Europe..................937,881 +0.4
– thereof Germany....318,353 +4.8
Asia/Pacific............977,922 +3.7
– thereof China........693,443 +6.2
NAFTA...................372,144 -1.6
– thereof USA..........316,094 +0.0

Is Lewis driving for BMW as well?

Munich. The BMW Group reported its ninth consecutive record year in 2019, with a total of 2,520,307 (+1.2%) BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce vehicles delivered to customers worldwide

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/a ... anguage=en

No of course not, that's why BMW is selling a substantially lower number of cars than Mercedes. You should always check the data. You think they should consider putting him under contract? LOL

[Big Tea]

I’m a Lewis supporter, but I don’t like greed.
He has more money then he can ever spend, why get greedy, he needs to look around at the world situation.

Not greed in any sense. It is about knowing his worth. He is worth billions in marketing if we look at the long term value to the brand. It's a negotiation. For example if he is theoretically valued at billions, and he is getting only 1% of that, he does have a good argument to raise his price. If he leaves even to rival manufacturer like Ferrari, or Aston Martin, some of that value with move with him. Some value he cannot take from Mercedes because he won his champs in cars there and those cars will always be tied to him. So he cannot take it all.. But he definitely can threaten them.

As I have said before, I doubt the hold up is for actual cash amounts. He probably wants to be allowed to do something, or not have to do something they want, such as PR. It may even include the car staying black, or having to ware Mercedes merchandise in interviews etc.

Or as others have said, it may revolve around what Toto is doing next

[PlatinumZealot]

This Toto Lewis Tie up though.. What is the reason for beleiving it exists? Lewis at the end of the day wants to win championships i would think. If Toto goes and the car is still fast Leiws won't go anywhere. So i am still trying to understand what sort of personal or professional tie lies between this two.

I mean Lewis didn't care to stay with Ron Dennis and that was probably a closer relationship. Toto was not necessarily Lewis' biggest backer when Nico was around. It was after Nico left when Toto saw Nico's level of loyalty and then he shifted over to a closer relationship with Lewis. I would say he only began to understand Lewis after that point.

[e30ernest]

This Toto Lewis Tie up though.. What is the reason for beleiving it exists? Lewis at the end of the day wants to win championships i would think. If Toto goes and the car is still fast Leiws won't go anywhere. So i am still trying to understand what sort of personal or professional tie lies between this two.

I mean Lewis didn't care to stay with Ron Dennis and that was probably a closer relationship. Toto was not necessarily Lewis' biggest backer when Nico was around. It was after Nico left when Toto saw Nico's level of loyalty and then he shifted over to a closer relationship with Lewis. I would say he only began to understand Lewis after that point.

Maybe Lewis thinks Toto is instrumental to the team's success, and any long-term commitment to the team without Toto on it could be risking a downtrend in form?

[PlatinumZealot]

Hhm. Aldo Costa was the architect of the teams current "model of sustainability" for lack of a better term. He recently commented that this model was doubted by others, but once it was put in practice they saw that it was the best decision. He went on to say that once that sustainability model is in place, there is a strong chance Mercedes will be at the front even if a different leader is there.
I guess the model sorts of guides the policies and by extent what sort of phiosphy is required of the leader too.

[SiLo]

Hhm. Aldo Costa was the architect of the teams current "model of sustainability" for lack of a better term. He recently commented that this model was doubted by others, but once it was put in practice they saw that it was the best decision. He went on to say that once that sustainability model is in place, there is a strong chance Mercedes will be at the front even if a different leader is there.
I guess the model sorts of guides the policies and by extent what sort of phiosphy is required of the leader too.

I'd love to know more about this

[Big Tea]

This Toto Lewis Tie up though.. What is the reason for beleiving it exists? Lewis at the end of the day wants to win championships i would think. If Toto goes and the car is still fast Leiws won't go anywhere. So i am still trying to understand what sort of personal or professional tie lies between this two.

I mean Lewis didn't care to stay with Ron Dennis and that was probably a closer relationship. Toto was not necessarily Lewis' biggest backer when Nico was around. It was after Nico left when Toto saw Nico's level of loyalty and then he shifted over to a closer relationship with Lewis. I would say he only began to understand Lewis after that point.

Maybe he is thinking Toto may go to RP/AM whatever, with a Merc engine and blessing and be looking to either displace or replace Merc.

Merc withdraws/sells up changes owners etc, AM would become the primary team with Toto running it. Would look attractive to Hamilton, especially with part ownership. Record becomes championship in 3 teams.

[djones]

I doubt Hamilton has to worry too much about planning for the future. His value as a driver gives him incredible negotiation ability.

If he says he wants a 12-month contract (so he can see the best team after, especially if Toto moves) its unlikely Mercedes will say "no its 36 months or nothing".

[PlatinumZealot]

Hhm. Aldo Costa was the architect of the teams current "model of sustainability" for lack of a better term. He recently commented that this model was doubted by others, but once it was put in practice they saw that it was the best decision. He went on to say that once that sustainability model is in place, there is a strong chance Mercedes will be at the front even if a different leader is there.
I guess the model sorts of guides the policies and by extent what sort of phiosphy is required of the leader too.

I'd love to know more about this

https://www.gazzetta.it/Auto/03-11-2020 ... 2127.shtml

“We had signs on which to put projects and ambitions, I wrote that we should not think of winning a title, but of winning many. It wasn't a brag, it's just that these are objectives that require completely different organizational processes ”.

When Costa talks about "values ​​we have built", then he is referring to what he calls "a cultural question that in my opinion is the basis of all great sporting successes. In this, Mercedes is like the All Blacks: people pass, the culture they built remains. And it gets stronger. " It sounds rhetorical. Yet that's what all the men on the team repeat, starting with Lewis Hamilton. "But in Mercedes they are happy that others believe it rhetoric, so they don't imitate it," laughs Costa. "And that culture that the walls of Brackley are imbued with is transmitted." True, because Paddy Lowe is gone, Costa is out, at the end of 2020 he will leave Andy Cowell. Wolff himself portends a disengagement: "Whoever goes prepares the future, grows successors in the same philosophy. It is also a way of adapting to the vicissitudes of life. And that's why I keep imagining a very strong Mercedes. And I don't see who will be able to stop it. "

[Morteza]

[bosyber]

Hhm. Aldo Costa was the architect of the teams current "model of sustainability" for lack of a better term. He recently commented that this model was doubted by others, but once it was put in practice they saw that it was the best decision. He went on to say that once that sustainability model is in place, there is a strong chance Mercedes will be at the front even if a different leader is there.
I guess the model sorts of guides the policies and by extent what sort of phiosphy is required of the leader too.

I'd love to know more about this

https://www.gazzetta.it/Auto/03-11-2020 ... 2127.shtml

“We had signs on which to put projects and ambitions, I wrote that we should not think of winning a title, but of winning many. It wasn't a brag, it's just that these are objectives that require completely different organizational processes ”.

When Costa talks about "values ​​we have built", then he is referring to what he calls "a cultural question that in my opinion is the basis of all great sporting successes. In this, Mercedes is like the All Blacks: people pass, the culture they built remains. And it gets stronger. " It sounds rhetorical. Yet that's what all the men on the team repeat, starting with Lewis Hamilton. "But in Mercedes they are happy that others believe it rhetoric, so they don't imitate it," laughs Costa. "And that culture that the walls of Brackley are imbued with is transmitted." True, because Paddy Lowe is gone, Costa is out, at the end of 2020 he will leave Andy Cowell. Wolff himself portends a disengagement: "Whoever goes prepares the future, grows successors in the same philosophy. It is also a way of adapting to the vicissitudes of life. And that's why I keep imagining a very strong Mercedes. And I don't see who will be able to stop it. "

Well put, and very interesting, and sort of ties in with with the article I came in here to post:
The Race - How Mercedes designed f1s best car but kept it secret:

“That car was the first car to have everything done the right way,” says chief designer John Owen.

“We had the structures, the right people in the right places, and a single-minded philosophy of how we were going to approach the car and all its challenges and complexities.” ... The W04 is Owen’s favourite Mercedes, a car that represented a massive breakthrough. Though it had “lots of detail that’s just the right compromise on all the right things and the round the back end it’s a proper step forward”, there were bits that “we didn’t get around to finish”.

Owen says that during 2012, the various elements of the car – tyres, aerodynamics, engines, trackside inputs, driver input – were still competing with one another. Various points were being made in the pursuit of improving individual areas while the global picture was ignored.

...

Mercedes’ solution was to establish the Performance Group, which comprised the key performance members of the team. That would prioritise the pursuit of one direction, right or wrong. If it was right it worked well. If it was wrong, it was a lesson learned.

“We just got together and agreed what we were going to do amongst ourselves, we had tough conversations, and we all worked together, four or five of us, what we were going to do and how we were going to go forward,” says Owen.

“At that moment it just got better, better, better. And that’s probably ground zero, and the 2013 car was the first product of that. It was a very useful statement of intent for the future.”

Really quite a nice article, some more tidbits:

Mercedes was privately quite pleased as it became clear Red Bull worked on its car to the end. Because once W04’s potential was clear, it had served its purpose and the 2013 season wasn’t the priority.
...

“We now know from people who were working at Red Bull in 2013 who have since joined us that the one thing that W04 did is put them under pressure to defend in 2013,” says Owen.

“It stopped them looking forward to 2014.

“That was actually really, really effective to make your competitor think you’re catching them and they have to also spend resources, while in reality we were fully on to 2014 with the engine and the chassis.”

It also sort of definitely answers the question to "were Mercedes sandbagging, until and after the Bahrain GP?" with a solid yes, and why:

If there was a tangible “epiphany” with the 2013 car it was that Mercedes understood how to make the tyres work for the first time ... although amusingly its confidence was not total, and the extent of its performance advantage after the rules changed was such that the drivers were taking it easy through the corners just to be safe.

“Even when we turned the engine down it still went very quickly down the straights, so we would often sort of pootle round the corners,” Owen admits.

“We were still a little bit nervous about our tyre life in those early years when we still weren’t fully on top of tyres.

So, worry about the tyres, but also strategy:

But Cowell insists Mercedes had a good idea of the ultimate potential of the package well before then.

“I think we already knew where we were, we just hadn’t shown it,” he says.

“We were spending more time working out what performance level we should run going into qualifying. We wanted to make sure we’re on the front row, but we didn’t want it to be too big a gap to the second row.

“James Vowles and myself spent a lot of time working out what mode should we run in, so we kind of knew where we were against the others, because we imagined they got it wound up to 11.”
...

The side-benefit to the performance of W05 not being stressed early on, in addition to making it easier to conserve the engine and tyres, was that Mercedes was able to validate that its car was “actually quite decent” without broadcasting that to the wider world.

And there was “no frustration” internally that the engine was winning the plaudits. Partly because Brackley recognised the brilliance of the product Brixworth created. But also because letting rivals think it was all the engine quickly became a deliberate ploy.

...

“Whereas the power unit, nobody really knows how the power unit is that powerful, what combustion technology you’ve got. They can only speculate. But it’s all inside the engine, there’s nothing you can see really on the outside.

“So, letting the other teams believe that it was all about the engine was something we were keen to do.

“For years people copied Red Bull aerodynamically, they all did a Red Bull copy and that suited us just fine. That was something we were quite keen to encourage and if that meant talking down the chassis and bigging up the engine then we were more than happy to do that.”

Makes you wonder what Newey thinks of that!