Alonso drives Renault R25 at Yas Marina Circuit

[PlatinumZealot]

Yea!! And riveted aluminium tubs! To decide who are boys and who are men!

In the real world, no NA engines are used anymore. You can’t buy an Audi, BMW, Mercedes or McLaren with a NA engine. The only Ferrari is a V12, while even their last halo car has a turbo. You can still buy a 1.0 Polo if you want something atmospheric.

For power
La Ferrari
Porsche 918
Lamborghini Hurracan
Audi R8
Gordon Murray T50
Aston Martin Valkyrie

The most efficient passenger car petrol engine is a naturally aspirated Toyota engine.

Anything is possible once you design for it.

Bring back the V10s!!!!

[Jolle]

When did the “road relevancy” crap appeared for the first time?

I see this being brought up everywhere, this started to happen recently

Also why road relevant? why can’t we race closed cockpit cars F1 with headlights and blinkers then?

F1 has never been road relevant, it has never been the test bed for new technologies for road car use. 7 years of hybrid engines and there’s still no road cars with an mgu h, mgu k and all that complex stuff. And current road car hybrid engines aren’t even based off F1 systems

So F1 can race NA engines all they want.

I have observed and it’s mostly newer fans who come from mainstream sources (Netflix, YouTube) that believe the road relevancy thing is actually real

That kind of fan also fails to answer the question “how many spark plugs does a 4 cylinder Diesel engine have” so when they say “road relevancy” they probably have no clue what they are talking about

Nothing worse than gettin married to a false idea, F1 has no bounds and never had

The idea of road relevance came from the manufactures in F1, who are there to sell cars. They worked together with the FIA and FOM to come to a formula that we have now. So, although you think a hybrid turbo engine is madness, Daimler, FCA, Honda and Renault didn't want to go on with F1 without.

I’m willing to bet they would definitely step back to simpler engines if they had a choice

And honestly, most of the people who own a Renault or a Mercedes have no regards for F1 at all. At least 90% of people I talk with and own either a Honda or a merc or even a Renault. Not Ferrari cause rich people don’t live here. For Mercedes owners, the fact mercedes has been dominating for years doesn’t even make them flinch, “oh cool” is what most say

The real reason why manufacturers “opted” for hybrids is lame, and it’s callled politics, within the companies themselves.

Today what appeals to the masses are “green” engines, so they choose to go that way, I mean, that’s what anyone would do. But if the masses do a 180 tomorrow, they will follow too

In 2005 there where 7 manufacturers. Cosworth, BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault

Arguably, the cutting edge technology available back then is now almost readily available for most big shops, so instead of 7 you might get even more, if there’s a budget cap for engine development

I’m really happy that Renault brought the R25 and put Alonso to drive it. The way things happened make me believe they wanted to deliver a message

If F1 hasn’t become fully gutless, expect NA screamers to come back OR a new series to emerge that fulfills what F1 lacks today

They have a say and the manufacturers clearly said they want to continue with the current format.

[Pingguest]

Banning refuelling is the root of all the evils we have in F-1 today.

Refuelling was awful. It was all "try to pass in the pits". You could time between the on track overtakes with a calendar.

Dull, dull, dull.

Instead, we have waddling whales full of fuel passing in the pits from the tyre "undercut"..

Great trade off there...

The current tire situation cannot be an argument in favor of in-race refueling, can it?

Having said that, the current tire situation is the consequence of having standardized tires and a designated tire supplier willing to "spice up" the racing.

[JordanMugen]

I don't know whether the BRZ is a good or bad example.
I'm pretty sure you realize it was built with the sole goal of being fun to drive with easily induced oversteer but with enough under-steer to scare you before you hurt yourself. Much like those Triumphs and MGs of old.

Which is to do with the handling, but how about the engine compared to other 200-220hp class engines?

A 1.5 turbo lump ala Fiesta ST could perform like this, notice how torque comes in early and hard and then drops away dramatically, with little point revving beyond peak power at 5300rpm:


But would it be as good as the 2.4 N/A boxer that performs like this.... Nice flat torque, and climbing, climbing power all the way to peak power at 7000rpm!

(The old representation in the gauge cluster was pretty accurate, so no reason to doubt this new one for the 2.4 litre. )

[haza]

Yes. The size probably adds to the illusion that the car is faster.

Also, I think the footage of Alonso's run looks faster because the 360 footage has a very wide FOV (it gives an illusion of speed) while the other static cameras are following the car at a fixed FOV.

The TV cameras following F1 cars are zooming in and out to follow the action and this kills the sensation of speed a lot. Just look at how much faster the current cars look when taken at trackside with mobile phones compared to the TV footage.

People were trackside watching, and the car still looked faster in their eyes. So no cameras factor there.

Refuelling days were not bad. It's just as confusing as today's strategy. Nowadays the cars are not going all out and never will. I don't find that more exciting. When you are pushing 100% there will be more errors and more failures, fatigue sets in etc. The cars will also carry less fuel at any given time, and will be smaller.
If the current cars had refuelling the tanks would be considerably smaller than they are now.
The rule that made the cars 2m wide was also a mistake. 1800mm wide was not an issue, and those cars still looked more menacing that these fat whale cars we have today.
Someone needs to make an alternate series that competes at F1 level. V10, LNG power, 150kg less, KERS, (no mguh) refuelling cells etc. It would steal F1's thunder.

I agree. Although, I might migrate to an inline 5 (same v10 sound, 1/2 the parts).

Definitely agree an inline 5 would be smaller than what they have now and sound twice as good it’s a win win

[jjn9128]

I agree. Although, I might migrate to an inline 5 (same v10 sound, 1/2 the parts).

Definitely agree an inline 5 would be smaller than what they have now and sound twice as good it’s a win win

Don't think it would be shorter though, the V10s were ~575mm long to the V6s 480mm, turbo charged might mean a narrower bore and longer stroke but still the length of the engine would be bigger. I'd go with what they were originally planning for the hybrid era, an IL3 or 4.

We're drifting off topic-ish again

[Zynerji]

I agree. Although, I might migrate to an inline 5 (same v10 sound, 1/2 the parts).

Definitely agree an inline 5 would be smaller than what they have now and sound twice as good it’s a win win

Don't think it would be shorter though, the V10s were ~575mm long to the V6s 480mm, turbo charged might mean a narrower bore and longer stroke but still the length of the engine would be bigger. I'd go with what they were originally planning for the hybrid era, an IL3 or 4.

We're drifting off topic-ish again

Its a complicated sport like that!

[PlatinumZealot]

I agree. Although, I might migrate to an inline 5 (same v10 sound, 1/2 the parts).

Definitely agree an inline 5 would be smaller than what they have now and sound twice as good it’s a win win

Don't think it would be shorter though, the V10s were ~575mm long to the V6s 480mm, turbo charged might mean a narrower bore and longer stroke but still the length of the engine would be bigger. I'd go with what they were originally planning for the hybrid era, an IL3 or 4.

We're drifting off topic-ish again

Those sound like any tuner car you can hear on the street. Just loud and obnoxious.

[Big Tea]

Hmm, tet me see. Short engine and good sound?? how about

[jjn9128]

Hmm, tet me see. Short engine and good sound?? how about

Plus lots of infants like to say Wankel

[Big Tea]

Hmm, tet me see. Short engine and good sound?? how about

Plus lots of infants like to say Wankel

Teacher, Teacher he said a bad word

[Scorpaguy]

The "braaaapp" is really an interesting engine. Infinite HP, zero torque. The triple/quad rotors in FD and D1GP sound quite the rabid, zombie, banshee horde...and quite the tyre shredders. However, tuning can be difficult and reliability is not great. Since the formula we have now is dominated by one team, part of me wonders about a semi-unlimited engine/fuel formula limited only by costs (completely unworkable...most likely).

[Big Tea]

The "braaaapp" is really an interesting engine. Infinite HP, zero torque. The triple/quad rotors in FD and D1GP sound quite the rabid, zombie, banshee horde...and quite the tyre shredders. However, tuning can be difficult and reliability is not great. Since the formula we have now is dominated by one team, part of me wonders about a semi-unlimited engine/fuel formula limited only by costs (completely unworkable...most likely).

Not being picky like, but that won a 24hour

[Scorpaguy]

The "braaaapp" is really an interesting engine. Infinite HP, zero torque. The triple/quad rotors in FD and D1GP sound quite the rabid, zombie, banshee horde...and quite the tyre shredders. However, tuning can be difficult and reliability is not great. Since the formula we have now is dominated by one team, part of me wonders about a semi-unlimited engine/fuel formula limited only by costs (completely unworkable...most likely).

Not being picky like, but that won a 24hour

Touche...however:

1. not sure Mad Mike's or Kyle Mohan's tuner would make that distance.
2. which was bigger, the gas tank or oil tank?

Still, I am a braaap fan. How about 767 powered, Tyrrell P34 chassis, and Brabham BT46 ground effects in F1 next year...Eddie Jordan as TP.

[Big Tea]

here is a pic of the motor btw https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAI
~
telescopic intake runners (variable height tuned to engine RPM), 2-piece ceramic apex seals, and 3 spark plugs per rotor instead of the usual 2 to reduce fuel consumption. This produced a motor capable of developing 900 hp at upwards of 10000 rpm, although it was detuned to ~700 hp (some say even as low as 630 hp) in order to provide reliable service throughout the race.
~

It would not need the variable length intake (not legal in F1 today) they were because it had very little torque
at low revs, just where the MGU-K is most useful.