2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 04 - 06

[maxxer]

Sorry to say for Pirelli but thy got wider tires then 2009 and only 200 hp more , they didnt give us the 2 stoppers they just made tires are crap compared to what the competition would have made for 1 stop solutions

[maxxer]

The tyres are strong enough. If they get cut repeatedly by debris, its hard to guarantee integrity of the structure.
And the thing about the tyres failing in the same spot. That is very likely. The debris can be picked up anywhere arounf that track, any sector, and get cut up. But the straight is where the load increases from downforce but also the speed of rotation and thus they hoop stresses as PZ said. That high stress part is in fact the main and first place where any tyre failure with happen. Kinda like a plane landing. The highest stressed are going to be seen on landind and not take off.
I suspect debris was the issue. The tyre could infact have encountered debris laps before the failure.

lol you work for them or something the tires have been failing for years now and on this race both tires failed at the side wall not the running surface how can debris cut the side wall please explain

[PlatinumZealot]

Sorry to say for Pirelli but thy got wider tires then 2009 and only 200 hp more , they didnt give us the 2 stoppers they just made tires are crap compared to what the competition would have made for 1 stop solutions

What do you propose would be a better one stop tyre?
Remember the "cliff" in 2011?
These current Pirellies degrade gradually and predictably once you manage the temperature. The problem is they have to be babied to keep them going.

They are quite sticky however. The fastest tyres in the world currently.

You might want a design that doesnt have to be babied but all the teams will easily master it and the tyre life would be crazy long. Its a balance really.

I howver dont blame tyres. I blame the fact that a pitstop is too punishing. I have a thread where i proposed that refuelling will remove the penalty of a pitstop.

[maxxer]

Sorry to say for Pirelli but thy got wider tires then 2009 and only 200 hp more , they didnt give us the 2 stoppers they just made tires are crap compared to what the competition would have made for 1 stop solutions

What do you propose would be a better one stop tyre?
Remember the "cliff" in 2011?
These current Pirellies degrade gradually and predictably once you manage the temperature. The problem is they have to be babied to keep them going.

They are quite sticky however. The fastest tyres in the world currently.

You might want a design that doesnt have to be babied but all the teams will easily master it and the tyre life would be crazy long. Its a balance really.

I howver dont blame tyres. I blame the fact that a pitstop is too punishing. I have a thread where i proposed that refuelling will remove the penalty of a pitstop.

For me i would like 2 options a 1 stopper or a 2 stopper where the tires make up the advantage for the extra stop.
Right now everyone is doing the same anyway can just as well make a tire which lasts the whole race
The stop is just mandatory because of needing to run 2 compounds its not that the teams have options.
Strategy now is just the undercut or waiting for a safety car while back in the day they could do something with strategy.
Agreed refueling might bring that back also

[Just_a_fan]

Whatever is put in place - long life tyres, refuelling, etc., - the teams will ultimately converge on the same strategies. There is one single way to do the race in the least amount of time and the teams will tend towards it. You might get someone trying something different if they're out of place through a bad qualifying or because they always end up in the same place on the grid, but ultimately there is one strategy that is the quickest.

Randomised events are about the only way one can shake up the field. A 1-lap VSC at some randomly chosen moment, for example, would create chances because it would help some cars and not others, but it makes the whole thing a lottery.

If you think about it, the seasons of old were a bit like the randomised VSC idea. The cars would fail now and then and different drivers would do well at various times. With the current cars being as close to reliable as you can get in a racing car, even that element of chance is mostly gone. And so we're left with the choice - introduce lottery events. Make the grid based on names drawn from a hat, for example. Make a VSC occur at some random moment. Make cars that fail. Or just leave it alone and let things be.

Whatever you do that isn't just throwing chance events at the race, the teams will converge and the outcome will be processional to some degree.

[Wouter]

Pireli investigated Max and Stroll's tire.

[NL_Fer]

So the tire broke by itself, but Pirelli is not to blame for. How supprising.

[dans79]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... n/6572225/

“The process established that there was no production or quality defect on any of the tyres; nor was there any sign of fatigue or delamination. The causes of the two left-rear tyre failures on the Aston Martin and Red Bull cars have been clearly identified. In each case, this was down to a circumferential break on the inner sidewall, which can be related to the running conditions of the tyre, in spite of the prescribed starting parameters (minimum pressure and maximum blanket temperature) having been followed.”

Sure sounds like a design failure by the Pirelli engineering department to me...

The statement added: “As a result of this analysis, Pirelli have submitted their report to the FIA and the Teams. The FIA and Pirelli have agreed a new set of the protocols, including an upgraded technical directive already distributed, for monitoring operating conditions during a race weekend and they will consider any other appropriate actions.”

And this reads like, since we screwed up (Again), we are going to make the teams jump through even more hoops!

[nzjrs]

Given that it seems they don't know the true underlying cause, I'd expect them to increase the pressures for the remainder of the season 'coincidentally'. This might have an impact on the teams depending on how they manage tire temperatures.

[RZS10]

Or they just tighten some protocols to make sure that everyone actually runs with the minimum tyre pressures? They don't have to increase anything if no one tries to run them lower ....

[PlatinumZealot]

So the tire broke by itself, but Pirelli is not to blame for. How supprising.

Running conditions of the tyre? Hmm. Very interesting.

For years now there is a suspiscion that RedBull ( as well as two other teams) has wheels that lower the tyre pressures.

They also have agressive heating methods.

I can see the tyres getting crystalized with high side-wall flex and high sidewall temperatures. Possibly even a hydrocarbon liquid is being released into the tyre to refridgerate it. That in itself could have dissolved the rubber a bit and contributed to the break. RedBull has so many tricks I dont even know where to start speculating.

Awaiting further reveals.

[F1NAC]

So why they only failed on 2 cars if there is a design flaw. If there is one? Did they inspect other tyres from other drivers to check if they were maybe also close to failing?

[Andres125sx]

Given that it seems they don't know the true underlying cause, I'd expect them to increase the pressures for the remainder of the season 'coincidentally'. This might have an impact on the teams depending on how they manage tire temperatures.

Indeed, this could be crucial for the title fight...

[TimW]

So the tire broke by itself, but Pirelli is not to blame for. How supprising.

Running conditions of the tyre? Hmm. Very interesting.

For years now there is a suspiscion that RedBull ( as well as two other teams) has wheels that lower the tyre pressures.

They also have agressive heating methods.

I can see the tyres getting crystalized with high side-wall flex and high sidewall temperatures. Possibly even a hydrocarbon liquid is being released into the tyre to refridgerate it. That in itself could have dissolved the rubber a bit and contributed to the break. RedBull has so many tricks I dont even know where to start speculating.

Awaiting further reveals.

Tire blanket temperatures are maximized, aren't they? (80deg rear, 100 front as far as I know).

[RZS10]

Yes, teams were massively overheating the tyres for the pressure measurement and then dropped the temps to the working range so they had to mandate max. blanket temps