2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

[Sieper]

It doesn't matter if he gained an advantage or lost out ... the race director's notes clearly stated that anyone not making the corner would have to go through the bollards, he did not, and it wasn't even that he got pushed out whilst fighting for position, he just did not make the corner - so he should have made that little detour which surely would have cost him further positions (many, probably), he did not do so and only lost one place which kept him in contention for the win.

He did not even bother with pretending to go for the bollards in order to claim that he wouldn't have made it at that angle and speed, just got back on track the fastest way possible.

So Masi's own notes aren't even worth as much as the paper they're (not) printed on ... would the penalty of going through the bollards fit the crime of making a mistake? Probably not, but of course he got away with it.

Obviously Bottas should have gone the long way when he missed corner 4 which would have cost him the position to Checo, but at least Masi was consistent in ignoring his very own rules there.

This is something I noticed many times. Front runners are allowed more.

The one thing you could say is Max was not willing to put Lewis in danger so left ample room on the outside (also so that Lewis could still brake, with Max in front downforce would be gone) so maybe that was a mitigating factor, because that compromised his own entry. Also, the fact that Lewis took an extremely long time to manoeuvre into his starting spot. I am sure they noticed that as well. Causing Max to have colder tires. But yes, he went off under his own steam, If he would have tried the foam boards (literally impossible to reach that late in the corner) he would be like p15 or so.

He got away with it. I thought those foam boards were a tad excessive as punishment. Or was there like a valid place that if you exit the road later on in the corner you could return as Max did.

In 2019 there was a crash and max just merrily went out of the track to rejoin in P2, I think it also likely the foam boards were for that scenario more then when actually trying to make the corner.

[lh13]

Even Toto saying Merc had the edge on race pace. So I don't know why people here are pretending Lewis nearly won with a slower car.

Interesting what Toto said about bottas triggering the 1st pitstops. It was all bottass fault.

The lap times say otherwise. Merc was expected to be the faster car. It wasnt.
If merc have the fastest car we see Hamiltoj disappearing into the distance and overtaking decisively if someone's in the way.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that Hamilton somehow has the skill and experience to stick on Max's gearbox. It's not a sin if HAM is the skiller driver, you know?

No one's saying that Mercedes is a second /lap faster, which is usually needed to pass someone without having the tire advantage.

[lh13]

It doesn't matter if he gained an advantage or lost out ... the race director's notes clearly stated that anyone not making the corner would have to go through the bollards, he did not, and it wasn't even that he got pushed out whilst fighting for position, he just did not make the corner - so he should have made that little detour which surely would have cost him further positions (many, probably), he did not do so and only lost one place which kept him in contention for the win.

He did not even bother with pretending to go for the bollards in order to claim that he wouldn't have made it at that angle and speed, just got back on track the fastest way possible.

So Masi's own notes aren't even worth as much as the paper they're (not) printed on ... would the penalty of going through the bollards fit the crime of making a mistake? Probably not, but of course he got away with it.

Obviously Bottas should have gone the long way when he missed corner 4 which would have cost him the position to Checo, but at least Masi was consistent in ignoring his very own rules there.

This is something I noticed many times. Front runners are allowed more.

The one thing you could say is Max was not willing to put Lewis in danger so left ample room on the outside (also so that Lewis could still brake, with Max in front downforce would be gone) so maybe that was a mitigating factor, because that compromised his own entry. Also, the fact that Lewis took an extremely long time to manoeuvre into his starting spot. I am sure they noticed that as well. Causing Max to have colder tires. But yes, he went off under his own steam, If he would have tried the foam boards (literally impossible to reach that late in the corner) he would be like p15 or so.

He got away with it. I thought those foam boards were a tad excessive as punishment. Or was there like a valid place that if you exit the road later on in the corner you could return as Max did.

In 2019 there was a crash and max just merrily went out of the track to rejoin in P2, I think it also likely the foam boards were for that scenario more then when actually trying to make the corner.

Norris went straight on while skipping the foam boards, and at a much higher speed, wasn't penalised either.

[lh13]

Also, Martin Brundle mentioned that you are required to go down the escape road only if fail to make turn one, which Max didn't, he only missed turn 2. I am not sure if it was decided later in the weekend by the stewards or not.

[RZS10]

I believe they should make those things more detailed and allow for different scenarios, because if you bail really early you get away without losing all that much time whilst still going through the bollards (was it Ricciardo or Sainz? one of them kinda straightlined the slalom, remember Max in Russia? barely cost any time, was it Sainz who hit the wall trying to do the same?), if you're as late as Max the punishment is severe (too severe tbh) because he would have needed to slow down a lot, so maybe the requirement should be to just go around both of them without the slalom, wouldn't cost as much time as trying to get the angle right in order to go between them but would still require him to slow down. Issue is that this would leave it to the driver to decide whether he has to go route A or B ... so also not a good solution. Although Max just ended up ignoring the bollards altogether and claiming that he had "no control" over his car which is ... well ... a really really good excuse ... lol

And @lh13 ... the quote from the notes is literally a few posts up ... what Brundle said was just plain wrong.

[Sieper]

Losing place was I guess enough of a punishment to the stewards. Also, on the point of rules and adhering to them. I just read that not only did Lewis wait very long to stop on his start spot, with Max already sitting there having his tires cool down, apparently he also left very big gaps on the formation lap. Aren’t you required to keep within 10 car lengths?

[grubschumi13]

Mercedes need to start thinking for Lewis as #1 like how rb do that for Max. They would not have let Bottas pit first if they were maximizing Hamilton's chances. They keep relying on him to do these magical drives desbite the strategical setbacks.
Bottas need to be #2 starting next race. They dont have the luxury to be giving him equal chances. the WCC is alreadty gone. They need to salvage the WDC.
What i observe and am confident about however is that Hamilton is still the most relentless over the race distance. The other drivers seem more impervious to the tyre conditions. Whether this is experience or trickery; who knows, But he has that going for him to still keep him in the fight.

Mercedes has already made Hamilton has been #1 since 2017 and Bottas as Wolff said his 'wingman'. Mercedes had the faster car here as Wolff also said.

[epo]

Even Toto saying Merc had the edge on race pace. So I don't know why people here are pretending Lewis nearly won with a slower car.

Interesting what Toto said about bottas triggering the 1st pitstops. It was all bottass fault.

The lap times say otherwise. Merc was expected to be the faster car. It wasnt.
If merc have the fastest car we see Hamiltoj disappearing into the distance and overtaking decisively if someone's in the way.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that Hamilton somehow has the skill and experience to stick on Max's gearbox. It's not a sin if HAM is the skiller driver, you know?

You know, it is not a sin to admit you have a faster car or not, doesn't make Hamilton or Verstappen a --- driver. As it was now RB faster in Qualy, Mercedes slightly fast in race pace. Been so fan biased is a bit boring my friend, stop it.

That's why I respect Toto, good guy, smart guy and usually is open and clear and why not?

[RZS10]

Losing place was I guess enough of a punishment to the stewards. Also, on the point of rules and adhering to them. I just read that not only did Lewis wait very long to stop on his start spot, with Max already sitting there having his tires cool down, apparently he also left very big gaps on the formation lap. Aren’t you required to keep within 10 car lengths?

Were the gaps big enough to be an issue? Haven't seen the warmup lap as i was making a coffee at that time, so i can't comment on that (Someone with F1TV could check)
Lewis could take as much time as he wanted to position his car since they have to wait until the very last car gets on it's grid spot anyways? The cars behind him don't have to wait until he has done so, so it's a moot point, no? Surely it took Stroll longer than it took Lewis ....

[Sieper]

Yes, but Max was at a full stop while Lewis could still do a wheel spin. I wasn’t watching the formation lap (making coffee for my mates) but I did see Lewis arriving abnormally late. I can’t remember having seen such a time difference between 1 and 2 that I can remember. Max only has 5 poles so isn’t very experienced in this and, it has to be said, Lewis also likes to play these kind of games.

Just a small thing but if I was a steward I would weigh it in. And maybe they did.

[RZS10]

I don't think this played any role in the decision making and it absolutely shouldn't have*, rather that they may have come to the conclusion that their bollard placement is suboptimal and losing the lead was punishment enough.

*If anything that Lewis did was against any regulations they should investigated that seperately since it's not just about them two but also other drivers, many would have profited from Max taking the detour, no idea what the penalty for not adhering to warmup lap / starting procedures is but that could have also played a role for others.

Found a video and Lewis isn't really that far away, unfortunately this doesn't show whether Lewis actually bunched up the field behind him or if Max was quick to get to his grid spot but none of it was a clear rule breach apparently (you would expect RBR to be all over it, i guess).

[Edax]

Losing place was I guess enough of a punishment to the stewards. Also, on the point of rules and adhering to them. I just read that not only did Lewis wait very long to stop on his start spot, with Max already sitting there having his tires cool down, apparently he also left very big gaps on the formation lap. Aren’t you required to keep within 10 car lengths?

He explained on the radio directly afterwards “ I couldn’t turn right”.

His rear was sliding, so if he would have steered to aggressively to the right the rear tires would step over and he would have rejoined the track facing backwards.

I guess the stewards would deem that a less preferable situation than not making the blocks.

[Singapore2008]

Losing place was I guess enough of a punishment to the stewards. Also, on the point of rules and adhering to them. I just read that not only did Lewis wait very long to stop on his start spot, with Max already sitting there having his tires cool down, apparently he also left very big gaps on the formation lap. Aren’t you required to keep within 10 car lengths?

He explained on the radio directly afterwards “ I couldn’t turn right”.

His rear was sliding, so if he would have steered to aggressively to the right the rear tires would step over and he would have rejoined the track facing backwards.

I guess the stewards would deem that a less preferable situation than not making the blocks.

I heard that as well. Didn't knew what it meant at the time though.

[ringo]

Wolf and Horner on interview on Sky: According to Wolf they maybe had a bit of a margin on RB. They were forced to pit Bottas early because of vibrations(flat spot). Both did not expect the undercut to be this powerful. RB were worried about a repeat Barcelona.

By the way, I do not know if English is your first lanauge. But when Wolff said they had a margin, it was not about the pace. It was about the gap to Max and protecting from the undercut. He was referring to the margin they needed to execute the pitstop and come out in front. He distinctly said that the lead was inherited. At no point did he say the mercedes was faster. We do hear Hamilton saying however that the Redbull is the faster car.

[nzjrs]

Wolf and Horner on interview on Sky: According to Wolf they maybe had a bit of a margin on RB. They were forced to pit Bottas early because of vibrations(flat spot). Both did not expect the undercut to be this powerful. RB were worried about a repeat Barcelona.

By the way, I do not know if English is your first lanauge. But when Wolff said they had a margin, it was not about the pace. It was about the gap to Max and protecting from the undercut. He was referring to the margin they needed to execute the pitstop and come out in front. He distinctly said that the lead was inherited. At no point did he say the mercedes was faster. We do hear Hamilton saying however that the Redbull is the faster car.

English is my first language and I understood it the same way TimW did. The conversation later pivoted to the undercut directly, but the snippet we are all talking about my interpretation was that he was speaking about general pace (margin).

Quantitatively we kind of saw that in the first stint when Hamilton got out of DRS range quite easily.