2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

[Just_a_fan]

So many people under estimating the influence on the race of RBR having both cars in the fight.
Mer did not have the free hand in strategy that they have been getting and were found wanting

Exactly. If the second Red Bull had been 30 seconds back in the second stint, Mercedes would have done what they did in Barcelona. With Perez sitting there as a possible road block, they couldn't risk doing it. Having set up Perez to be on newer tyres in that part of the race by pitting him later so that Hamilton would have struggled to get by him, they set it up for Max very nicely. Excellent work by the strategists and by Perez.

[El Scorchio]

So many people under estimating the influence on the race of RBR having both cars in the fight.
Mer did not have the free hand in strategy that they have been getting and were found wanting

Exactly. If the second Red Bull had been 30 seconds back in the second stint, Mercedes would have done what they did in Barcelona. With Perez sitting there as a possible road block, they couldn't risk doing it. Having set up Perez to be on newer tyres in that part of the race by pitting him later so that Hamilton would have struggled to get by him, they set it up for Max very nicely. Excellent work by the strategists and by Perez.

Do we think Perez *could* have gone somewhat quicker in the first part of the race but was intentionally hanging back just for strategy reasons? If so, this having a proper domestique is a whole new ball game, really. The number two driver historically has still gone out the blocks as hard as possible even if just to 'rear gun', but deliberately keeping them -10 or 15s down the road intentionally feels new. Mercedes are going to have to make a tough call with Bottas if they want to try and match this.

[RZS10]

It doesn't matter if he gained an advantage or lost out ... the race director's notes clearly stated that anyone not making the corner would have to go through the bollards, he did not, and it wasn't even that he got pushed out whilst fighting for position, he just did not make the corner - so he should have made that little detour which surely would have cost him further positions (many, probably), he did not do so and only lost one place which kept him in contention for the win.

He did not even bother with pretending to go for the bollards in order to claim that he wouldn't have made it at that angle and speed, just got back on track the fastest way possible.

So Masi's own notes aren't even worth as much as the paper they're (not) printed on ... would the penalty of going through the bollards fit the crime of making a mistake? Probably not, but of course he got away with it.

Obviously Bottas should have gone the long way when he missed corner 4 which would have cost him the position to Checo, but at least Masi was consistent in ignoring his very own rules there.

Masi about Max: "The situation was looked at, as well as the place where he shot off the track.
Physically it was impossible to follow the prescribed route. That route is based on what has in the past been the most common place where drivers have gone off track in Turn 1. The moment was reviewed and it was judged that he clearly went off the gas, lost a position and returned to the track safely. As a result, no further action was required."

Masi about Bottas: "That moment was looked at immediately. Considering where Valtteri went off track, he chose the safest option. He lost a significant amount of time and returned to the track in a safe manner. Therefore, no action was taken. It was however noted as one of his three cautions before he would be shown a black and white flag. In the rest of the race, he didn't make any more mistakes."

Yea already saw that, the bold part is obviously not (entirely) true which becomes clear when watching the onboard ... should probably be more along the lines of "would have been impossible without slowing down to a near stop" which would have meant a massive disadvantage for a relatively small mistake, i guess him trying to still go to the left of the bollard was a mitigating factor and from that point onwards it really would have been hard to go to the right of the first one and then to the left of the second one, probably still possible to just go around them ... but i already pointed out that the bollard placement etc was terrible in this post.

It's funny though how Masi has different explanations for those scenes, in one it was "impossible" to do the right thing and for Bottas it was absolutely possible to do it but just rejoining right after the corner was somehow "the safest option" (how is it safer than going around a bollard?).

There really is no point to that section of the race director's notes, is there? Either stick to it or use a wording that specifically allows for some subjective calls by the race director and/or stewards.

It's just really bad officiating and he'll say whatever to justify the decisions and i wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the line someone will go off track and not rejoin the proper way getting a penalty as a result.

[aMessageToCharlie]

So many people under estimating the influence on the race of RBR having both cars in the fight.
Mer did not have the free hand in strategy that they have been getting and were found wanting

Exactly. If the second Red Bull had been 30 seconds back in the second stint, Mercedes would have done what they did in Barcelona. With Perez sitting there as a possible road block, they couldn't risk doing it. Having set up Perez to be on newer tyres in that part of the race by pitting him later so that Hamilton would have struggled to get by him, they set it up for Max very nicely. Excellent work by the strategists and by Perez.

Do we think Perez *could* have gone somewhat quicker in the first part of the race but was intentionally hanging back just for strategy reasons? If so, this having a proper domestique is a whole new ball game, really. The number two driver historically has still gone out the blocks as hard as possible even if just to 'rear gun', but deliberately keeping them -10 or 15s down the road intentionally feels new. Mercedes are going to have to make a tough call with Bottas if they want to try and match this.

Perrez was saving tires for the one-stopper, so obviously he COULD have gone quicker.

I don’t see the conspiracy though. Splitting the strategy was the smart thing to do and Perrez is THE driver known for making these calls work. It was a no brainer imo.

[El Scorchio]

Exactly. If the second Red Bull had been 30 seconds back in the second stint, Mercedes would have done what they did in Barcelona. With Perez sitting there as a possible road block, they couldn't risk doing it. Having set up Perez to be on newer tyres in that part of the race by pitting him later so that Hamilton would have struggled to get by him, they set it up for Max very nicely. Excellent work by the strategists and by Perez.

Do we think Perez *could* have gone somewhat quicker in the first part of the race but was intentionally hanging back just for strategy reasons? If so, this having a proper domestique is a whole new ball game, really. The number two driver historically has still gone out the blocks as hard as possible even if just to 'rear gun', but deliberately keeping them -10 or 15s down the road intentionally feels new. Mercedes are going to have to make a tough call with Bottas if they want to try and match this.

Perrez was saving tires for the one-stopper, so obviously he COULD have gone quicker.

I don’t see the conspiracy though. Splitting the strategy was the smart thing to do and Perrez is THE driver known for making these calls work. It was a no brainer imo.

I'm not suggesting a conspiracy in the slightest. Just clever strategy, but a different type of strategy to what we are used to seeing. But it does involve convincing a driver - Perez in this case - that unless something untoward happens to his team mate and probably another driver at least, that he will not be in consideration for the win. Hence my use of the word domestique from grand tour cycling.

[maxxer]

It doesn't matter if he gained an advantage or lost out ... the race director's notes clearly stated that anyone not making the corner would have to go through the bollards, he did not, and it wasn't even that he got pushed out whilst fighting for position, he just did not make the corner - so he should have made that little detour which surely would have cost him further positions (many, probably), he did not do so and only lost one place which kept him in contention for the win.

He did not even bother with pretending to go for the bollards in order to claim that he wouldn't have made it at that angle and speed, just got back on track the fastest way possible.

So Masi's own notes aren't even worth as much as the paper they're (not) printed on ... would the penalty of going through the bollards fit the crime of making a mistake? Probably not, but of course he got away with it.

Obviously Bottas should have gone the long way when he missed corner 4 which would have cost him the position to Checo, but at least Masi was consistent in ignoring his very own rules there.

Masi about Max: "The situation was looked at, as well as the place where he shot off the track.
Physically it was impossible to follow the prescribed route. That route is based on what has in the past been the most common place where drivers have gone off track in Turn 1. The moment was reviewed and it was judged that he clearly went off the gas, lost a position and returned to the track safely. As a result, no further action was required."

Masi about Bottas: "That moment was looked at immediately. Considering where Valtteri went off track, he chose the safest option. He lost a significant amount of time and returned to the track in a safe manner. Therefore, no action was taken. It was however noted as one of his three cautions before he would be shown a black and white flag. In the rest of the race, he didn't make any more mistakes."

Masi is becoming a race director , clear and quick explanation cant argue with it
Also he said the viewers dont see the 3 strikes and then the black and white flag.
Both drivers made 1 mistake and both were looked at if they gained advantage it is right if people constantly do it to gain an advantage

[El Scorchio]

It doesn't matter if he gained an advantage or lost out ... the race director's notes clearly stated that anyone not making the corner would have to go through the bollards, he did not, and it wasn't even that he got pushed out whilst fighting for position, he just did not make the corner - so he should have made that little detour which surely would have cost him further positions (many, probably), he did not do so and only lost one place which kept him in contention for the win.

He did not even bother with pretending to go for the bollards in order to claim that he wouldn't have made it at that angle and speed, just got back on track the fastest way possible.

So Masi's own notes aren't even worth as much as the paper they're (not) printed on ... would the penalty of going through the bollards fit the crime of making a mistake? Probably not, but of course he got away with it.

Obviously Bottas should have gone the long way when he missed corner 4 which would have cost him the position to Checo, but at least Masi was consistent in ignoring his very own rules there.

Masi about Max: "The situation was looked at, as well as the place where he shot off the track.
Physically it was impossible to follow the prescribed route. That route is based on what has in the past been the most common place where drivers have gone off track in Turn 1. The moment was reviewed and it was judged that he clearly went off the gas, lost a position and returned to the track safely. As a result, no further action was required."

Masi about Bottas: "That moment was looked at immediately. Considering where Valtteri went off track, he chose the safest option. He lost a significant amount of time and returned to the track in a safe manner. Therefore, no action was taken. It was however noted as one of his three cautions before he would be shown a black and white flag. In the rest of the race, he didn't make any more mistakes."

Masi is becoming a race director , clear and quick explanation cant argue with it
Also he said the viewers dont see the 3 strikes and then the black and white flag.
Both drivers made 1 mistake and both were looked at if they gained advantage it is right if people constantly do it to gain an advantage

Any penalty for Verstappen or any driver in that same position would have been really silly. It's the first corner and clearly just a mistake that didn't handicap another driver. You have to give some allowance for that. At the time, losing the lead was penalty enough.

[Just_a_fan]

So many people under estimating the influence on the race of RBR having both cars in the fight.
Mer did not have the free hand in strategy that they have been getting and were found wanting

Exactly. If the second Red Bull had been 30 seconds back in the second stint, Mercedes would have done what they did in Barcelona. With Perez sitting there as a possible road block, they couldn't risk doing it. Having set up Perez to be on newer tyres in that part of the race by pitting him later so that Hamilton would have struggled to get by him, they set it up for Max very nicely. Excellent work by the strategists and by Perez.

Do we think Perez *could* have gone somewhat quicker in the first part of the race but was intentionally hanging back just for strategy reasons? If so, this having a proper domestique is a whole new ball game, really. The number two driver historically has still gone out the blocks as hard as possible even if just to 'rear gun', but deliberately keeping them -10 or 15s down the road intentionally feels new. Mercedes are going to have to make a tough call with Bottas if they want to try and match this.

It wouldn't surprise me if Red Bull had said to Perez "you stay within 10 seconds of Hamilton, assuming you aren't able to jump one or both Mercs in the first lap or two". Perez didn't get it done on Saturday so would have been expecting something like that, I'm sure. He's got to know that with Max basically a couple of DNFs clear of him in the title race, he's going to be asked to play the team game.

[Just_a_fan]

Exactly. If the second Red Bull had been 30 seconds back in the second stint, Mercedes would have done what they did in Barcelona. With Perez sitting there as a possible road block, they couldn't risk doing it. Having set up Perez to be on newer tyres in that part of the race by pitting him later so that Hamilton would have struggled to get by him, they set it up for Max very nicely. Excellent work by the strategists and by Perez.

Do we think Perez *could* have gone somewhat quicker in the first part of the race but was intentionally hanging back just for strategy reasons? If so, this having a proper domestique is a whole new ball game, really. The number two driver historically has still gone out the blocks as hard as possible even if just to 'rear gun', but deliberately keeping them -10 or 15s down the road intentionally feels new. Mercedes are going to have to make a tough call with Bottas if they want to try and match this.

Perrez was saving tires for the one-stopper, so obviously he COULD have gone quicker.

I don’t see the conspiracy though. Splitting the strategy was the smart thing to do and Perrez is THE driver known for making these calls work. It was a no brainer imo.

Indeed so. He was put on a strategy that did two things - gave him a chance of leap frogging the Mercs later in the race, and that made it difficult for the Mercs to double team on Max. All normal stuff when you have both team mates around your main opponents. No suggestion that Perez was thrown under the bus for Max on this occasion.

[Redragon]

Yes he is really underrated, he grow up under his father influence. Driving in different conditions making him really adaptable to any car and responding well to it.

Dont know why is underrated i always found him a good driver very stable and i think good feedback to develop a car
Like Alonso and Schumacher if this team would keep him long term he can help develop the car

I don't know if he's underrated so much as under the radar. Was treated a bit poorly by RBR as a casualty of their historical habit of prioritising driver A over driver B, IMO and has had to quietly go about his business in the background to an extent thereafter.

Without the push of Alonso and his manager, to sing for Mclaren, Sainz nearly missed the opportunity when RBR didn't want him anymore. That's why is underrated because he has to show his value all the time. He nearly was out of F1 even before any good. opportunity

[El Scorchio]

Dont know why is underrated i always found him a good driver very stable and i think good feedback to develop a car
Like Alonso and Schumacher if this team would keep him long term he can help develop the car

I don't know if he's underrated so much as under the radar. Was treated a bit poorly by RBR as a casualty of their historical habit of prioritising driver A over driver B, IMO and has had to quietly go about his business in the background to an extent thereafter.

Without the push of Alonso and his manager, to sing for Mclaren, Sainz nearly missed the opportunity when RBR didn't want him anymore. That's why is underrated because he has to show his value all the time. He nearly was out of F1 even before any good. opportunity

I think he definitely was underrated at that time. Only a fool would do that now, but I think he has had to (and probably still does) live firmly in the shadow of Hamilton, Verstappen, Leclerc and Ricciardo but now has an opportunity to shine. If Leclerc and Ferrari are committed to each other long term, then I wonder if Sainz could end up at Mercedes?

[LHamilton]

Hilarious that people hail Perez as almost the second coming with this drive, but Bottas gets massive stick if he is 5+ seconds off Hamilton. But I'm not suprised since people tend to dislike old, repetitive things such as multiple world champion in a row (i.e Schumi/Ferrari-era, Vettel/Red Bull-era and lately during the Hamilton/Mercedes-era) as well as things happening on a smaller scale (from race to race). The Perez/Verstappen dynamic is fresh, and a better pairing than the previous year so people find that as a massive step forward. But mark my words. If Perez ends up not challenging Verstappen on to many occasions, people will start slagging off Perez as well. Because that would become old and repetitive and the cycle continues. People will just piss in whatever direction the wind is blowing.

[aMessageToCharlie]

Hilarious that people hail Perez as almost the second coming with this drive, but Bottas gets massive stick if he is 5+ seconds off Hamilton. But I'm not suprised since people tend to dislike old, repetitive things such as multiple world champion in a row (i.e Schumi/Ferrari-era, Vettel/Red Bull-era and lately during the Hamilton/Mercedes-era) as well as things happening on a smaller scale (from race to race). The Perez/Verstappen dynamic is fresh, and a better pairing than the previous year so people find that as a massive step forward. But mark my words. If Perez ends up not challenging Verstappen on to many occasions, people will start slagging off Perez as well. Because that would become old and repetitive and the cycle continues. People will just piss in whatever direction the wind is blowing.

This is ironic. I don’t even like Perrez.
I think he was overrated. Ocon looked faster and cleaner. Hülkenberg looked faster. He just always got lucky when a podium was in the cards. But maybe that's what you need. A driver that gets lucky frequently. And he always made those long stints work. Can't argue with that. I'll reserve my judgement for this season. I think he's started out disappointing and too slow, wasnt there to defend against Mercs strategy options... But he's won a race already and seems to get up to speed. And again he made that long stint work, managin the tires. Positively surprised as of late.

But Bottas had his good moments as well, once in a blue moon.

[langedweil]

all talk about flexy wing they are no flexy wings someone has made a better pu than merc.Rbr were allegedly supposed to lose anyway from 0.3 tenths to .06 tenth it didn't happen in facts Honda found more power with better reliability and new oil

I'd say the difference lies more towards the chassis side, because RB was able to use less df and thus had a higher straightline speed. Normally over the last few years a Merc with DRS seemed unstoppable, now Lewis could only creep up.
I think engine/deployment wise Merc still has a slight upperhand.
But what do I know ..

[dans79]

all talk about flexy wing they are no flexy wings someone has made a better pu than merc.Rbr were allegedly supposed to lose anyway from 0.3 tenths to .06 tenth it didn't happen in facts Honda found more power with better reliability and new oil

I'd say the difference lies more towards the chassis side, because RB was able to use less df and thus had a higher straightline speed. Normally over the last few years a Merc with DRS seemed unstoppable, now Lewis could only creep up.
I think engine/deployment wise Merc still has a slight upperhand.
But what do I know ..

It wasn't chassis, it was a setup choice. When they were on the same compound tires with roughly the same number of laps on them, Merc was faster in sector 1 & 3, while RBR was faster in Sector 2.